The Ship Model Forum

Good Morning Ramaja,

Yes, I understand your viewpoint about the conflict between light projectors and doors at this position. But I see light projectors and doors in the same situation at Zara's bridge.



I ampliate the same coloured picture I showed above.



And perhaps crew members created a optical illusion here, but I continue seeing the same door at Zara and Pola at the same position.



And may be the same line at Zara and Pola's tower.



I understand the pictures aren't very clear, pictures in different angles create different optical illusions in both cases and drawings are not perfects. And I think until now don't surfaced a conclusive evidence about this tower format.

Now I need to work, but at night I'll try to ampliate another pictures to search more evidences.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

Hi Nicolas,

Nice to read it from you. I like soo much your work with Trumpeter's Richelieu, and I'll use it as reference when I do mine in the near future.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

Hi, lunch break here.

What I mean is, that the platform were probably different in design to some extent and Italy never built ship on a template before the war: just look at the differences between Littori, Vittorio Veneto and Roma. What I came out with so far is an upper structure that is too small to have an enlarged observation room wider then the quaripod itself and the two very large projectors. The copy cast of the Roma's ones in resin for that place are pretty huge albeit perfectly in scale with the drawings, at least if you position them accordingly with the early pics of the ship, when the parapets were not installed.
the problem is that, looking at the quadripod I built I feel somehow that the upper platform I made already is pretty large (almost too much).
Good plans of the ship would be a precious help, but I was able to find only Zara ones or early configurations that don't suits my needs.
Check the last pic (the blurred one) I posted and tell me what you think: it should be contemporary to the "Rivista Z" in colours you posted, about late 1938.

Gianluigi

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"For the one who walk in darkness with a stick is blind, but the one who sticks out in the dark is... Fluorescent!"

Hi Gianluigi,

Yes, I remember when I traveled to Italy, there was 5:00 hours time difference between us.

I tried to search others Pola pictures on the net that show this area better to us, but pictures I found was inconclusive too.

I agree with you, some pictures like this one you pointed show something that contradict my interpretation. But for an unknow reason the majority of drawings and models from Pola I found reproduces this same interpretation. Including this curious interpretation from this forum: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=83409

Only to have more inputs to this research, I ampliated some pictures I have.

Some pictures seems to show only a frontal plate with glass, without lateral plates.



Other shows a lateral plate only until the frontal mast line, similar my 1st interpretation. But at these pictures frontal masts appears to me are in a strange position, they looks to be forward from lateral plate when seeing them from a lateral view.



But I'm curious about these two pictures from the same sequence. What's the white retangular object I pointed? A open door?





Finaly I found this interesting picture at an Tauro Model ad. Seems to me its the better I found showing this area, but unfortunatelly in soo much low resolution to be util for us. May be if we find it in a better resolution we can solve this mistery.

Hi Gianluigi,

I think I have another question for us. Looking at your pictures, seems to me you're working at rear tripod mast tower based in the same picture than me.





But today searching for more Pola pictures, I found this interesting Luce pictures sequence from 26.07.1940: http://senato.archivioluce.it/senato-lu ... l?start=12

Observe how much this tower has changed. Do you had saw it before?



And here there are some impressive pictures taked in Pola board, with soo much close details:

http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/0 ... =navi+pola





This one seems to be at a rear funnel platform, it's a nice light deflector close up.


Best Regards,

Ricardo

Hi to all,

While I wait for new evidences to solve top tower format, project continues in other directions.

I added a curved plasticard inside front funnel to create a profundity appearence avoiding clarity from windows appears there.



And with funnel cap in it's place:



I cutted too the rear funnel cavity where crane tip was placed.



But comparing the picture I had take as reference with others I observed I was deceived by a shadow or some kind of rust that created a fake impression that cavity continues until funnel base.





This error is easy to fix with a curved plasticard piece, but I'll wait until I calculate the correct crane position to do it.

After some comparison with pictures and drawings, I conclude frontal leg from rear tripod mast from the kit has approximately the correct diameter, about 2,2mm, but unfortunatelly it is too short. I used a rod piece with the same diameter and correct lenght to represent it. I reproduced too the rear pin tu support rear platform in the correct place.



The two rear legs are absents on kit. Observing this Fiume picture I have the impression rear legs had the same diameter than front leg at it's base and are a little bit less large at top with a conical shape. I don't have a rod with this format and no tool to do it. My solution is to use two rods with little less diameter size, about 1,8mm, to create a optical ilusion similar to the reality.



And it's the result.

Here is the rear funnel top cap I do with the same way I did the front funnel cap.



I add a new ring at top funnel and the four rear holes.



And the assembly dry fitted in place.



To do the tripod mast bridge, I begun using this picture from about 1935.



The 1st detail I observed, kit has some mistakes at 2nd floor. They represented it as a solid block, but picture clearly show two lateral platforms with walls where some crew members was placed.

To correct it I did only the floor, correcting the two rear bulges format, where I'll place the central room and the walls.



I was bending some thin platicard to do the walls with the correct format, when I resolved to search on the net for new pictures to solve the top tower format.



In my search I found this Europeana page http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/0 ... =navi+pola , with a considerable number of good Pola pictures from July 1940.

Among them there was some pictures showing this bridge with a new configuration I never had see before In pictures, publications or plans. Seems to me this bridge was modified after 1938 and probably had continued with this appearence until Pola's sinking.



I pointed here some changes I observed o this bridge:

1 - The two devices on 1st floor was removed and walls was increased;

2 - A new object was installed on the 1st floor but I can't identify it;

3 - For an unknown reason curved tops from the walls on 2nd floor was substituted for plated ones;

4 - Two new devices appears at the front top of the central room.

For other reasons I had reproduced the 1st floor base in plasticard without raised details. This will facilitate me to do this changes. The two cilindrical objects that appears on 2nd floor are the pieces from where I'll cut the curved walls for the rear observation bulges.





Today it's the rear mast assembly appearence:



And the dry fitting appearence from the ship.





Today I received a nice addition to this project. A Giampiero's (Regia Marina M.A.S.) Meridional Ro.43 set.









It was a indication from Ramaja and it's infinitely better than the trash plane that accompany this kit and can substitute with vantaje the furnished in Trumpeter's Roma. Very nice job Giampiero did..

Best Regards,

Ricardo

Great work. Enjoying your build. Interesting work on the funnel caps. Great scratch building there. Using laminations was good lateral thinking
Im not familiar with this ship but one of your pics shows the visible internal chimney plates/vanes. Are you putting them in later? I wouldnt leave it too late in the build or itll get hard to do.

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Hi Allan,

Thank you for your words. :thumbsup1: Yes, I see these plates, but I'm needing a picture or drawing showing better it's configuration. Now there's no problem to put it there because I'll only glue funnel caps in place latter.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

Good shot Ricardo!
I have given less attention than I should to the rear tree so far, because I did it early, before taking on the main forward bridge: the absence of the rear two legs on the ship is the easiest problem to spot in the ship so it was the first I tried to adress before start counting all the issues yo well know of, but you are right and the pics you found are invaluable! The problem is that there is so much to do on this building that sometime I make mental note to recheck something and then I forget, taken away by some other problem...
The object named "red n4" doesn't seems to me to differ too much: IMO it's rather a matter of how light hits them but there are some sort of new vent hole added which were not there in older pics, unless they were covered with some sort of porthole shutter. I really have no guess about what they were for.
In absence of better and more precise documentation I would not wast much time trying figuring the exact size of the legs: If it looks good, it's good enough given the scale of the ship there is so much to rebuild on this kit that I think it's better address worse issues
The side platform were changed indeed. The unknown device "red n2" in IMO the rear view of the light deflector close up you have posted in a picture above.
The funnel slot you have created has the correct size, except it should end a bit higher from the base but that's easily fixed.
The funnel caps you rebuilt are fantastic: just check the last pics you posted on my own thread: at least on the forward one, there seems to be some sort of "ridge" on the top of the funnel cap, something not shaped and going upward, on which the catwalk railing is fixed. it should not take much effort to reproduce that feature anyway
As Allan point's out, there is a structure inside the forward funnel that puzzles me: most of the ships I've seen so far have internal divisions which reflect the number of heater to which they are connected, but this doesn't seems to be the case; it looks like a metal foil welded to the starboard side of the funnel in order to ad support for the rail cover at the top of the funnel cover, as if it was too thin to properly sustain the weight of a man during ordinary maintenance. I have no pics of the rear one interior.
I'll wait to see how you get those curved parapet in place before start changing further the shape of the platforms on the rear structure anyway the plasticard idea is good but I can't imagine how you will shape them with the upper rail curved outward. Since those kind of parapets are pretty common worldwide I wonder how other modeller have solved the problems created by over scaling or bad shape in their kits. I'm looking around and all ideas are welcome.
Also, get a look on my thread and tell me what you think of the plans I've drawn for the side range finder: to me they look good but I've been with my eyes on them so long that I night be missing something obvious.

Since we are building our ship at the same time and trying to share what we have available I wonder if there is a way to create some sort of single reference thread from our own in order to offer visitors a less fragmented and better understandable soulce of information on how to solve the problems posed by this Hobbyboss kit.
If it doesn't bother you we could ask Jim Bauman what can be done about

_________________
"For the one who walk in darkness with a stick is blind, but the one who sticks out in the dark is... Fluorescent!"

Thank you for your words Gianluigi , I will answer you in parts:



Seems to me there is glass at these holes, may be they used these bulges to install some kind of device, but I dont have a idea about it was.



I'm not sure if its the search light we see at rear funnel platform. I have another picture from this area and seems to me search light is at a soo much low position to appears there.



And seems to me too there's no space at rear funnel platform to have the crew member we see near the object in the 1st picture. Initially I prefer not to do soo much importance to this object without other evidences.





I'll check it with my references.



Yes, I observed it too at Jane's picture, but I can't see it in other pictures. I know there's a tuck there, may be it combined with the top grille created a optical illusion. I'll check it latter too to have a conclusion.





Yes, I think it too, but I have no references to do it properly. Now I have no idea what I can do there.



I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but my idea about it is:

- At 1 & 2 positions there are no curved parapet to be represented.





- But at 3, 4, 5 and 6 there are something like this.



- For 1 & 2, I see no problems, but for 3, 4, 5 and 6 I understand is impossible to curve a bended plasticard without damage it.

- I sketched the idea I have now in mind, and I think may be it has a chance to be winner. Please see my sketch like a lateral profile view.



My idea is to glue a triangular thin plasticard piece (in red) at a top from a plasticard stripe (in blue). Then sand it until the green line before curving the stripe .It's the 1st time I'll do it in this size and in soo much curved pieces and I have no idea if it will run well. But it's the only I idea I have for it now.



Yes, I had think about it too, we're reuniting here a lot of research about this ship and this kit that may be util to other modellers too. And may be Jim has some way to link our posts to the Zara Class Thread at CAF. To me there's no problem to ask Jim about if it's possible to do it.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

The best way to represent curved windshields is to do it like the real part. Develop the form on the plan (usually such parts look like a circumference section, imagine a thick "0" cut in half) and cut some templates in paper. Once you get the right shape, use the template to cut the part, or just use the template right away, as paper bevaves so much better than plastic when it comes to curved surfaces. HTH

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That's another way to do that: it has to be seen which is easier given the small size of these structures: I was thinking of Lead foil because this seems to be more "Plastic" and tends to keep the shape you give it instead of trying to get beck to the original one...
I think we'll have to do a lot of homework.
About the RF, I'll probably give it a try this evening. Sometime what you plan is not what your job allows you... v__v

Hi Gianluigi,

I did a test with this method I explained, but the results doesn't run in the promising way.

But I observed at the link below, Nicolas (LE BOSCO) explained another method, may be we can adapt it to solve our problem:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=111876&start=60

Ricardo

HI Ricardo and ramaja
I have posted a answer on my thread posting.php?mode=reply&f=59&t=111876
I did not dare to put pictures on your thread
cheers
Nicolas

_________________
https://ladiagonaledubosco.blogspot.fr/

Hi Nicolas,

I saw your thread now and I'm impressed with results from your research. I'll do latter some tests with your method to see what I need to do to adapt it for the variety of parapets Pola has.

To me there's no problem you post your pictures here. Your aid is inestimable to us and your explanations will enrich a lot this thread here.

I'm now working in this parapet at the tripod mast estructure. It's more simple than others because it dont has the slanted upper surfaces. But I'm using here too your method, wrapping the base with the plasticard to do the parapet, and results appears very good to me.





Best Regards,

Ricardo

Ricardo

your work on the Platform is very sharp and your work on your Pola is high-level ,keep this path
cheers
nicolas

_________________
https://ladiagonaledubosco.blogspot.fr/

Two interesting films I found today showing a lot of images from Pola at Gaeta Naval Exercises in 1933.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8w6ELIQLOA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_I5chZiIY

Today I added at initial post from this topic a relation of links from pictures and Luce Films at Youtube from Pola and other Zara Class Cruisers.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

Ricardo
further progress on your pola ? the parapets were manufactured ?
cheers
nicolas

_________________
https://ladiagonaledubosco.blogspot.fr/

Hi Nicolas,

No, not so much progress this week. Like you I spent too much time searching new images to solve some shadows areas in the ship.

The only progress are: the 2nd floor parapet at the tripod mast bridge.



It's format is a little bit complicated to be bended from a sole plasticard piece and I needed to did it in parts.





And the rear part of the 1st floor parapet. Problem here was, it had a complex format and I only understand it after resizing this picture from Gorizia.



This bridge at Gorizia was very similar to Pola's, but I don't find a Pola picture that show the same details from this bended parapet.



The other advance is a new top rangefind in progress.



I decided to discard kit rangefinder and create a new one after seeing these close pictures from a Pola at 1933 Gaeta maneuver film I found this week.







Best Regards,

Ricardo