A silk purse from a sow's ear - Building Lindberg's LCI-78

[jcmackay]

Hi everyone,

A note of thanks to Neptune, who wrote,

Starting to look like you should have stayed with your old habit of full scratch builds!!! Anyhow the results here are equally crisp and stunning. She'll look great when finished for sure. Very curious bow shape that one, looks a bit like a schnellboot somehow.

I've mentioned before that the bow of the Lindberg kit bothers me because it looks like a barge. LCIs actually had a bow made for speed, but you couldn't tell that looking at the kit as it is. Glad to see I'm not the only one noticing the bow lines!

Also, thanks to Mare Nostrum, who wrote:

I'm probably one of a (very) small minority, but I have a certain affection? regard? fondness? for Lindberg kits, ship, plane, or whatever. For certain some are quite toylike, crude, and inaccurate than a modeler would wish, but on the other hand some are halfway decent, or at least some aspects of them are, and they can serve as a workable basis for something far better, John's LCI being a case in point. I also find that an exercise such as what John is undertaking pushes the skills envelope for the modeler, by forcing scratchbuilt solutions to problems.

Okay, enough of that, I want to go back to the posting of Nov. 15th. Question for you, John-- I note that you used the frame method (actually, I guess "half frame" method) to build up the bow area, half the frame on each side of the spine. Did you do anything to assure perpendicularity of the frame sections, or for purposes of this build was it enough just to eyeball it and glue?

I'm totally on board with you, Mare Nostrum. I may seem like I'm carping about this kit, but I actually enjoy taking something that is a little rough-looking and buffing it up. I grew up with Lindberg kits, too, so they definitely have a sentimental value to me!

Now, as for your question about the bow: the hull cross-sections came from LCI drawings that are available online. I relied on my eye to ensure the half-frames were installed perpendicular on the spine. I'm building this model out of my hotel room while I'm out of town for my employer, so I had to rely on some easily transportable tools, which consisted of vernier calipers and a ruler to check my dimensions. That meant frequent checking of dimensions against the hull cross-sections, plus comparing hull lines with the photos from Navsource.org, from which I've downloaded almost 400 images during the build. There are prettier ways to do it, but when working out of a hotel room away from home, one makes do.

Thanks to you both for your comments!

John

[jcmackay]

Hi everyone,
Do you ever find yourself thinking you're pretty far along on a project, only to have something else pop up? Well, that happened and today, I'll tell you the sad story...

While working on the bow bulwarks, I took a good look at the photo of the LCI-30 and noticed something odd: the sponsons seemed different from other LCIs. I confirmed that after looking at photos of several other LCIs. Here is a photo of LCI-31 superimposed on a photo of Royal Navy LCI-293. I've underscored the lower edge of the sponsons on each in red. You'll notice that the 'chin' of the LCI-31 sponson is much deeper. Photos courtesy of Navsource.org

This is the sponson shape prior to modification. There's nothing wrong with it, if you're building a later LCI; many of the LCI-1 Class ships had less pronounced sponsons. However, that wasn't the case with LCI-30 as she was a very early LCI. It seems the sponsons were altered during the production run of LCI-1 Class ships to cut material costs and labor.

I've begun building up the sponson 'chin.' If I'd caught this earlier and had the right materials on this trip, I might have used styrene to build this up. Unfortunately, I have to use putty. Man, that blob of putty is going to take a long time to cure!!!

Maybe I'll be able to resume work on the model once the putty cures later next year!

John

[Mgunns]

Hello John:

I have been following your build with interest. I understand the frustration when finding out that bit of information after the fact. You are doing a great job with this kit considering you are doing it out of a hotel room! Like you and Mare Nostrum I like these old kits too and it will be neat to see you turn this into the "Silk Purse" that has been hiding there all these years. The box art sure hearkens to those halcyon days of our youth doesn't it?

Best of luck

Mark

[jcmackay]

Hi everyone,

Before I get into today's post, I want to thank Mark for his post, which I've excerpted:

Hello John: I have been following your build with interest... Like you and Mare Nostrum I like these old kits too and it will be neat to see you turn this into the "Silk Purse" that has been hiding there all these years. The box art sure hearkens to those halcyon days of our youth doesn't it?

Working with a Lindberg kit reveals both the positive and negative aspects to the quality of contemporary kits. On the positive side, one can assemble a model out of the box that is usually darned accurate. On the negative side, if you are like me, you enjoy a challenge and want more out of the model building experience than assembling a model that will look like a thousand others. Some modelers go to great lengths, adding PE and accurizing their models to have something that will stand out. I like a good kit bashing, plus many of us clearly share a sentimental soft spot for Lindberg models from days past. Thank you Mark for your kind and nostalgic comments!

I'm waiting for the huge blobs of putty on the sponsons to harden, so in the meantime I've gone back to work on the conn:

Even 'square conn' ships had different conn designs: the Royal Navy and the Royal Canadian Navy were given a number of square conn LCIs under Lend-Lease that featured a short conn. Most of these retained the US designation of LCI(L), but several lend-lease LCIs were used as flotilla flagships, equivalent to an LCI(FF) in US Navy use. In the Royal Navy, the ships were designated LCH, where the 'H' stood for 'headquarters,' and in the Royal Canadian Navy, the ships were designated LCI(S). Here is the Canadian Navy's LCI(S)-243 as an example of a short square conn. Photo courtesy of Navsource.org

In this photo, I've added the wheel house level and begun building the conning level. The wheel house bulkheads are .030 styrene and the conning deck is .040 inch styrene. .010 inch styrene simulates the armor plating that extended from the wheelhouse to the conn. I've also drawn a circle on the superstructure to indicate where the gun tub will be installed.

The superstructure is now complete, with bulkheads installed for the conning level.

Here's what the superstructure and conn look like, posed atop the hull.

Next, I installed the stand-offs for the conn venturi . I used .015 inch styrene for strength, although it is a little oversize. I'll use .005 inch styrene for the outer face of the venturi, but since I didn't bring any along with me on this trip, this will have to wait until I get home, which will be very soon!

John

[MareNostrum]

Now, as for your question about the bow: the hull cross-sections came from LCI drawings that are available online. I relied on my eye to ensure the half-frames were installed perpendicular on the spine.

John- Thanks for your reply. Reason for my asking is that in my early attempts at scratchbuilding I've been rather slipshod with regard to keeping things perpendicular, figuring that whatever doesn't come out right can be corrected (more or less) with gobs of putty and various patches with styrene strips. Well, I suppose sometimes one can get away with it, but hardly the mark of a "craftsman." To give myself a bit of a break, for me there's been a learning curve in working with generic styrene sheets and shapes, what should be used for structural features, what should be used for more finish-type work, etc. The respective rigidities/flexibilities come into play, as well as workability, i.e. ease of cutting. Lesson for me is to take the time, and the steps (e.g., using a jig), to get it as close to "right" as possible, to avoid problems down the line.

[jcmackay]

MareNostrum,

Oh man, now I'm going to be self-conscious every time I open up my tube of green putty!

A couple of thoughts. I agree with your point: relying on putty to even everything out in the end instead of taking the time to ensure the styrene goes together right in the first place is akin to those auto body shops that fix any repair with Bond-O.

These ModelWarships forum pages provide a great opportunity to study the results of modelers skilled in working with styrene and learn some of their techniques. And with models, there are a lot of ways to skin a cat!

Thanks for contributing to the conversation.

John

[jcmackay]

Hi everyone,

Here's a look at the new 'chin' on the sponsons.

I've tamed that huge blob of putty!

Here's another shot looking down on the bow sponsons.

Are you tired of looking at green primer? Me too! I picked up a can of gray paint and sprayed a coat to see what it looks like. All it needs now is a little dressing up.

John

[MareNostrum]

Oh man, now I'm going to be self-conscious every time I open up my tube of green putty!

Ooo , don't wanna do that! Not to deflect from the conversation, but FineScale Modeler had reference in their latest issue to new water-based putties, one of them being Deluxe Materials Perfect Plastic Putty, which they say doesn't shrink and can be worked with a wet finger. First time I've heard of it, think I'll give it a try. Perhaps better suited for tight spaces rather than gross fill-in work, but thought I'd pass this along.

[jcmackay]

Hi everyone,

Thanks to MareNostrum for providing this bit of info:

...FineScale Modeler had reference in their latest issue to new water-based putties, one of them being Deluxe Materials Perfect Plastic Putty, which they say doesn't shrink and can be worked with a wet finger. First time I've heard of it, think I'll give it a try. Perhaps better suited for tight spaces rather than gross fill-in work, but thought I'd pass this along.

I was not aware of water-based putty being available, so I'm very curious about how it will prove out. I've read some suggestions to use alcohol to clean up traditional putty, but I've never had any luck with that and have always had to rely on sanding/filing. A water-based filler may offer an alternative to the drawbacks of sanding. Thanks for the tip!

Today, it's time to move on to adding some topside details. The most prominent topside details are the gun tubs:

Before I can install the focsle gun tub, I need to do something about the holes in the focsle deck. 'A' indicates the kit's locator hole for a vent. The LCI-1 Class did not have this vent. 'B' and 'C' are the locator holes for the kit's gun tub. Besides being overscale, the gun tub is just plain ugly. 'D' and 'E' are the locator holes for the I-beam that was part of the ramp raising and lowering mechanism. The LCI-30 had her bow ramps and associated I-beam removed after her last campaign.

I installed scrap sprue from the kit and styrene with generous amounts of Model Master Liquid Cement into the 5 holes that were to be filled. After the cement hardened, I filed and sanded these flush. Then, I installed the gun tub made of .015 inch styrene. I've also highlighted the bulwark and hull seams with a fine-tip marker.

Here's a view showing the gun tubs on the superstructure and stern. Again, the tubs are made of .015 inch styrene. On the conn superstructure, I have highlighted the plate seams with a fine-tip marker.

John

[Goodwood]

She's starting to come together, John, well-done!

It'll definitely be interesting to see the final product. Will you be putting them in seascapes or display bases?

[Quincy]

Great job so far! Love the scratch building in particular!!





Bob Pink.

[jcmackay]

Hi everyone,

A word of thanks to Sean, who wrote

...It'll definitely be interesting to see the final product. Will you be putting them in seascapes or display bases?

Waterlining this kit is an excellent idea, given the extensive modifications to the hull. It would reduce build time and effort significantly. I may do that with another Lindberg LCI in the future, but for this build, I decided at the start to build it full-hull on a display base. Great question and thanks for checking in with your comments!

Also, thanks to Bob, who wrote,

...Love the scratch building in particular!!

If you like scratchbuilding, turning this kit into an LCI-1 Class ship will guarantee that, but that's part of the fun! Thanks, Bob, for stopping in and posting your kind words!

Today, I'll continue describing work on topside details.

The kit doesn't have any bitts or chocks, so those all have to be scratchbuilt. I'm limited on how much topside detailing I can do now, based on the materials and tools I brought along on this trip. So, I'm doing what I can and will finish up with the smaller details after I return home next week.

A photo of bitts and chocks going onto the stern. These are easily scratchbuilt: the chocks were carved out of .030 inch styrene, while the bitts are made of .020 inch styrene strip and .040 inch styrene rod. On the port side of the hull in this photo, styrene strips are pre-drilled and installed on the deck, awaiting styrene rod to complete the bitts. One complete set of bitts is on the starboard side, abaft of the gun tub.

This shows the completed bitts and chocks on the aft deck. I'm scratchbuilding all the topside details: this kit is in an odd scale, so I doubt there are any aftermarket fixtures available.

LCIs had three deck houses (sometimes referred to as 'booby hatches') that opened to ladders going belowdecks to troop compartments. On LCI-30, the forward two booby hatches were removed and replaced with cargo hatches. The aft booby hatch remained. I scratchbuilt this with various pieces of .030 inch and .060 inch styrene. In the case of the stern booby hatch, the door leading belowdecks was on the forward side. I'll scratchbuild that when I get home and have the materials. The arrow points to the 'booby hatch.'

John

[Jack Ray]

Very cool John.

I am currently building the same kit, like you inspired by Edward Pinnegar. I bought it after checking out the new Revell 1/144 LSM (which looks very appetizing indeed). I figured I'd start cheap, before I worked up to the LSM (if I do).

Opening the box, I thought it a real bathtub toy. However, it has grown on me and I'm moving forward. My intention is to make mine a LCS (L) fire support ship mounting a larger gun on the bow.

Interestingly, I read that Alec Guinness commanded a square conn LCI during Operation Husky. His was HM LCI (L)-124. Below is the Navsource link for this ship with pictures of Lt. Alec Guinness and his crew.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/15/150124.htm

[jcmackay]

Hi everyone,

Thanks to Jack, who wrote,

I am currently building the same kit, like you inspired by Edward Pinnegar. I bought it after checking out the new Revell 1/144 LSM (which looks very appetizing indeed). I figured I'd start cheap, before I worked up to the LSM (if I do).

Opening the box, I thought it a real bathtub toy. However, it has grown on me and I'm moving forward. My intention is to make mine a LCS (L) fire support ship mounting a larger gun on the bow.

That is great to hear someone else has taken on this kit, too - maybe Mr. Pinneger started something! I hope we'll see a thread of your build on MW.

I'm really impressed that you're going the extra mile and making your model an LCS(L). For those unfamiliar with that ship type, they were gun boats built on the LCI hull. In contrast to LCI(G)s, which began life as LCIs and were modified to be gun boats, LCS(L)s were built from the start to be gun boats. I'd thought about that kit conversion for a future project, but it would require quite a bit more scratchbuilding. You probably already know that Navsource.org has a lot of great photos of the museum ship LCS(L)-102 that is at Mare Island, California. I visited the ship 2 years ago and took quite a few photos, also. If I can be of assistance, shoot me an email. What drawings are you using for the build?

Since you mentioned the Revell LSM, I just received notification from Hobbylinc that they've shipped my order to me; I should have a Revell LSM waiting for me when I get home next week. Incidentally, I think they have the best price for the kit online. I'm eager to get a look at it and I hope to be able to post a review shortly.

John

[Jack Ray]

Hi John,

All the LCS (L) ships I have seen resemble the LCS-3 (L) 102 that you refer to. What I envisage is a LCS-2 (L). This version, I understand, is closer to the LCIs modified into gunboats. I have yet to see a photo, or diagram, but read that mods sometimes included fitting a complete tank turret to the bow. My plan is follow this (somewhat notional) configuration using the turret of a Sherman tank (I have ordered a 1/144 scale M-4 and will use the turret for my model). If this looks wrong, I have a 1/144 scale 3" gun from my Trumpeter Gato that I can fall back on.

We'll see what it all gives within the next few weeks as I find time to work the model.

Meantime, really look forward to more progress on yours!

Regards,

Jack

[jcmackay]

Hi everyone,

Thanks, Jack, for your post regarding LCS(L)-2s. I did some research and came up with this drawing, which is available for purchase from Traplet Publications:

The LCS(L)-1 and LCS(L)-2 class ships were built for the Royal Navy, based on the Fairmile 'H' Class hull. The LCS(L)-2 Class ships had a length of 32 meters (105 feet) and beam of 6.53 meters (21 feet 5 inches).

Here is a link to a web page with details about the ships: http://www.navypedia.org/ships/uk/brit_aws_lcsl2.htm

I hope this helps and I look forward to hearing more about your project!


Today's topic is about a small feature that was on all LCIs but is left off the kit.

The arrow points to a plate along the bottom of the stern bulkhead that appears to serve as a cavitation reducer. For now, I'll call it a thrust deflector because I don't know the actual name. Maybe someone can help with the name? The deflector is constructed from .010 inch styrene, which is a bit over scale, but thinner styrene would have been too fragile. The three holes are for the frame for the stern anchor base, which is also omitted on the kit.

The thrust deflector is a feature found on other amphibious ships, such as LSMs and LSMRs, and of course, LCS(L)s. In this photo, the vertical frames still need final cutting. Here and there, you can see the holes on the gunwales drilled for the lifeline stanchions. I'm going to use piano wire for the stanchions and stretched sprue for the life lines.

Here's an overall view of the model at this point

John

[LE BOSCO]

Nice scratch job Jhon
cheers
Nicolas

[Jack Ray]

Many thanks for that link John! Your's is really working out. I suppose one could consider this a semi-kit with good bones, but a requirement for scratchbuilding.

Regards,

Jack

[jcmackay]

Hi everyone,

Thanks to Nicolas who wrote,

Nice scratch job Jhon
cheers

Very happy to have craftsmen like you checking in, Nicolas!

Also, a word of thanks to Jack for posting his comments. I'm glad I could help and it's encouraging words like those from Nicolas and Jack that make this hobby so enjoyable!

Today, I'm reporting on work on the skegs:

Here is a before and after shot of the centerline skeg. The kit's skeg is too deep: the skeg actually did not extend beyond the baseline of the hull. Remember that this ship was designed to run up on the beach to offload troops, so a deep skeg would have presented problems.

I don't know where they got the idea for these giant wings that are supposed to be the outboard skegs. The leading edge profile is good, but they are too big. The arrow points to where I've begun to cut.

All three skegs installed.

At this point, I have to put aside the model while I'm packing. The next report will be from home!


John

[jcmackay]

Hi everyone,

Ahhh, it is good to be home!

Work on the model will be going a bit slower, now that I'm home. I've been working on hull details the last couple of days:

I've installed the stern anchor stand. The base was constructed of 032 inch brass rod. The center post and support struts are .025 inch styrene. The mounting flanges are of .005 inch styrene sheet. Also, the arrow points to the overboard discharge ports for the engines. This is made of .100 C-channel styrene, with holes drilled for the exhaust ports.

This shows the distinctive bow centerline hawsehole on the LCI(L) � 1 Class. Construction was of 3/16 inch aluminum tubing for the main body with 5/32 inch styrene tube inside. Then, the hawsehole assembly was inserted into a hole drilled into the bow centerline. I filled in the seam with green putty, which still needs to be sanded.

John