The Ship Model Forum

Wait until my post on the Instructions!

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

A small strip of Evergreen might help out that little gap as well. Less filler that way.



Bob Pink.

I've used styrene before, the problem is that when you have a constantly changing thickness in the gap you'll still have gaps that need filler. It works for preventing large expanses of filler, but ultimately I don't view it as any less work. I've also tried dissolving left-over styrene from sprues in liquid cement to make a thick plastic that can be painted on to fill gaps that then dries ... it works OK, but tends to leave bubbles that need to be located and filled.

So what I did on Scharnhorst is to fill the gap with Apoxie Sculpt; I had some left over Milliput I had though to use as well but it has appeared to have dried up enough that I just stuck with the Apoxie. Apoxie, like Milliput, is a two-part clay like epoxy material that can be used like sanding putty or for larger masses that can be sculpted; it's quite popular amongst my wife's model horse friends:



Both parts are a thick material; one is supposed to mix equal portions together to form the actual usable compound. But, as you see below, what you cut or scoop out (I usually work in small enough amounts that I just take a bit from the tip of my XActo) can be hard to compare in terms of volume, so what I usually do is roll that goober up into a ball and each one is then much easier to compare size wise for proper portion control:



I mix the two pieces by mashing them together, then flattening that mass out and folding. Repeat the smash & fold until the color is uniform and you see no light/dark swirls in the material. For gaps, I find it easiest to pinch off a tiny amount and roll out out to make little snake shapes like you might have done in elementary art class:



Then, I take the snake and work it into the gap, starting at one end and working to the other. If the snake isn't long enough, just make another one and overlay the start point a bit. You'll wind up with something like this:



Since Apoxie Sculpt is designed to be cleaned with water, all I did at this point was keep my finger wet from a wet paper towel, and gently rub the material smooth, and then continue rubbing so that gradually the excess was moved to the edge of the deck and off, leaving this smooth fill here:



The reason I did this was that I wanted to preserve as much of the detail as possible, including the plate and hole in the deck for the stern anchor as well as the ridge on the very stern where the pieces for the flag pole will be located. One thing I noticed after the fact is that I rubbed enough in this area that there's a wee bit of a depression as opposed to a flat surface; this is mainly because I was trying to remove material that was built up next to this ridge. I can either hit it with some Mr. Surfacer and sand it smooth, hit it with some more apoxie sculpt and use a wet spatula to try and get a better surface, or just re-scribe the lines and trust that no one's going to be able to see through all the flagpole poles anyway.....

But, if you do it right, this is one method for filling gaps in areas where there is concern about sanding off detail.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Apoxie Sculpt is amazing stuff. I use it for the majority of my filling needs. A little Mr. Surfacer for fine surface defects here and there, but Apoxie Sculpt for everything else.

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We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

That was a great 'how to' post Tracy

I use Mr Surfacer quite a lot... but finding a good filler that sands easily and can be used quickly and safely in small areas without melting styrene is far harder than it should be. Obviously I have tried most of the obvious... but they can get very messy. Milliput has its advantages but is a bit too hard sometimes... Do you know if this Apoxie Sculpt is available in the UK?

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Bill Livingston
Cambridge

Not sure about UK specific availability, but I get mine from the Starship Modeler website store:

http://www.starshipmodeler.biz/shop/ind ... pplies.cfm

Aves is not solvent based, so it doesn't attack plastic. It has a pleasant smell, doesn't shrink at all, and works/sands much like resin and styrene. The only drawback is that it takes longer to dry (12-24 hours depending on how thick you apply it) than solvent based putties, but it's so easy to work with that I ignore that single drawback.

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We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

Anyone have any idea when the WEM photoetch for this spectacular kit is out?

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Current Builds:
1-350 DKM Z-39
1-350 USS Philippine Sea

That's one thing I had intended to mention that I forgot to .. if you have any left over, keep it around as it makes a good indicator as to when the stuff on the model has fully cured.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

First week of October, according to John in this thread that you've already read
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=57924

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De quoi s'agit-il?

I'd intended to talk a bit about the instructions a bit, but haven't been able to motivate myself to hook up the scanner. Instead, I Started gluing the upper & lower hull together tonight. One area I focused on was the bow, where there was a slight step from the upper to lower pieces for a couple of inches that started about an inch in:



It's about 3 inches in length, very small, but close to even on both sides. I figured I might be able to do something about it with an insert piece that is provided for the lower bow:



The white rectangles are thin plastic sheet glued in as shims to press the center of the step out a bit and hopefully make the hull fit a little better. It's still a little too early to tell, but it appears to have largely removed the step on the port side and moderately removed it on the starboard side. I've got about half of the starboard side glued shut and about 5" of the port side. There's a slight twist to the upper hull that I probably introduced when gluing the deck down; I was trying to fit the pieces in tightly and correct a hug and it's probably that I gave it a slight twist in the process or that the act of straightening the hog caused the structure of the piece to react with a twist. Either way, it just meant that the starboard side was a little harder to get to fit over the alignment tabs than the port side so I focused on that a bit more. It's a weak enough twist that it can be easily overcome by holding the two pieces together with light force.

So, while waiting for the hull pieces to set I started working on the superstructure a bit more, and here's the overall process at the end of the night:



Tighter in:

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hadn't seen the new post in that thread. Thanks for the heads up.

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Current Builds:
1-350 DKM Z-39
1-350 USS Philippine Sea

Great to see a WIP of this highly anticipated model...FINALLY!!!

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Current builds:
Hobby Boss 1/700 Type VIIC U-Boat for my AH

Planned builds:
3 more 1/700 AH submarines

I had a busy week and took some time off to write a review of the Airfix 1/350th Trafalgar class submarine, so I didn't get any time in on Scharnhorst until Friday evening... I'll have an update on that later, after I've had a chance to take a photo or two of the progress.

I'd like to spend a word or five on the instructions. There have been some complaints about them, and while the instructions are usable and adequate, they are not without fault. Dragon has excelled in boiling the maximum information into the minimum sheet count, and that means that it is tailored to showing each area the minimum amount of times, and therefore putting as much information into each view as possible. Thus, they are optimized in such a way as to NOT follow the flow or construction order most of us follow.

I've selected two drawings that I personally had some problems with, either with confusion or missing information. I've cleaned them up a bit; removed some of the lines from nearby pieces so we can focus on these specific sections, even if it does actually negate some of the busy and cluttered appearance many are complaining about. The first is on the forward superstructure and is the assembly behind the armored conning tower (note that the view is looking aft at the forward bulkhead):



What are the numbers of the side bulkheads visible? You can see the deck/forward bulkhead (L10) and aft bulkhead (L35), but how about the side pieces? How come they show the ammo storage locker number (N62) twice on the same part, indicating a left & right repeat, and yet show separate two separate "D"s for the AA guns? In a similar vein, why weren't the directors domes and optical fiddlybits moved to the beginning with the rest of the weapons and referenced as assemblies the same way the AA guns were?

I believe that any drawing that is so busy that the manufacturer themselves misses that they are both duplicating and missing information is too busy, and should be broken down some how in a different way. At the same time, I was able to locate the side bulkheads with a short search on the parts trees and think that anyone who views something like this as a deal killer probably has a bright future with proper coaching.

The second view is a better example of trying to cram too much into too little, and also not presenting a logical flow of construction.



Where to start.....

The upper right corner is a small deck between the aft side of the second barbette and the main part of the forward superstructure. There are two water deflectors on each side; Dragon would have you attache these pieces to the bulkheads, where there is no method for locating proper placement, and THEN put the entire assembly down on to the main deck, where there are slots for these deflectors to sit. Why wouldn't they show you putting those deflectors on after the superstructure was mounted to the deck? Simple, that would take up more space.

Immediately to the left of that is a small box that shows how to fit a small piece in to this assembly that is not visible with the orientation of the main drawing. This is straightforward enough, but what about the box to the left of that; what is it referencing? If you look at the part number (L49), you can see it's a small structure in the middle of the superstructure nowhere near where that box's arrow seems to indicate. Essentially, because they have so much going on with the bridge wings in this area, they didn't have the space to put that box near where it should have been, and rather than expand the instructions sheet they just trust that the modeler will figure this out.

Now, if you are the type of builder who just likes slapping things together quickly this will confound & confuse you, and I can understand that some people want to be spoon-fed pre-softened food so they don't have to work too hard for their enjoyment. However, I do think that the instructions, while having issues that they can think about to do better in the future, are utterly and completely usable and better than many sets I have used (successfully!) in the past.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Tracy, nice breakdown on using the instructions. I can see how they can be confusing, but they're still better than a lot of resin kits I've built!

Seeing how nice this kit is really makes me want to buy one, even though German ships don't do anything for me. Must resist until the Independence comes out!

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We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

I covered small gaps in the deck edge and my attempt to fix them here, now I'd like to highlight what I believe to be an un-intended consequence of the slicing and pressing:



When I started putting the upper and lower hull pieces together, I noticed some noticeable steps between the two pieces about where the ends of the bilge keels were. They existed at about the same position and shape on both sides, and at first, I thought that I had perhaps let the resin I poured into the hull for mounting get too hot and somehow allow the hull to get soft and distort itself. Upon further reflection though, I believe I have a better idea of what happened. When I made the slices in the bulkheads and pressed in, I believe that it forced the bottom out and widened it slightly.

Rob has ordered 40 lashes with a wet noodle and I have to build an Airfix sub in penance. OK, I made the last part up.

I believe that if I had done the slices and glued the two hull pieces on before the deck that this would not have happened. Regardless, the starboard side is almost completely puttied & sanded and the port side is well along. Even with this it has been far less work than I had with the Trumpeter Hood or Lexington kits, for comparison.

Next week I'll start posting about the superstructure.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

excellent descriptive build

Im keeping my eye out on this one! keep it up Tracy



Jose

any updates Tracy?

I got about ten minutes to sand the port side down last night... first time in about two weeks I've had a chance. I had a review to do and some test shots that needed looking over and critiquing that ate all of my time. Hope to have some more updates soon.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Watching this closely. I just ordered this kit and plan to build it over the winter one the building season sets in proper. This is very helpful and I'm sure it will make my build much easier than it otherwise would have been. Can't wait for future updates.

Bob

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Give me a fast ship, for I would like to get out of harm's way!