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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:17 pm 
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Wilhelm wrote:
Channell wrote:
BTW, what happened to the rest of the Big Bissy Builders club? Everybody else who is building one went silent. I'm frightened and alone! :cry_3:


It's the da__able. all-consuming Emergency Medicine Boards! They come periodically (every ten years), like a bad case of relapsing malaria (see...I'm going nuts with all of this medical minutiae)! No time for ANY fun here until after mid-September! I'm the one who's really bawling! :cry_3:


Bill, you get a free pass :wink_1: but what happened to Nigel and Anton? Are you guys still building?

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Кочегар wrote:
Hello, my name is Vladimir. I from Vladivostok that in Russia.

With interest I watch Channell work. Good fellow.
I bought the same set, only RE yet didn't deliver
http://soga-miniatures.com/index.php?productID=34213

I think over a problem of windows.
I will come to you ideas to steal :big_grin:

Well and the to share.

PS: excuse for the translator

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/vie ... 46400.html


Thanks Vladimir! Take any of my ideas and run with them; unlike most model related things on the internet my ideas are totally free.

Just remember though, you get what you pay for! :whistle:

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:50 am 
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Channell wrote:
Кочегар wrote:
Hello, my name is Vladimir. I from Vladivostok that in Russia.

With interest I watch Channell work. Good fellow.
I bought the same set, only RE yet didn't deliver
http://soga-miniatures.com/index.php?productID=34213

I think over a problem of windows.
I will come to you ideas to steal :big_grin:

Well and the to share.

PS: excuse for the translator

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/vie ... 46400.html


Thanks Vladimir! Take any of my ideas and run with them; unlike most model related things on the internet my ideas are totally free.

Just remember though, you get what you pay for! :whistle:
Ok
Jason, what diameter you used a drill for windows on a ship body?


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 11:21 am 
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Кочегар wrote:
Jason, what diameter you used a drill for windows on a ship body?


5/64" (1.9844 mm) It's only slightly larger than the kit molded portholes.

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Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:45 pm 
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Another week, another progress report:

Image

'Ain't no seams on that boat! :big_grin: I'm now knee-deep in gluing millions of tiny PE parts to the superstructure...

Image

It was a whole lot of extra work but replacing the portholes and deleting the porthole rings on the aftermarket PE really captures the look of the real ship and make me feel like my modifications were really worth it. I can't wait to see it all painted!

I also got all the paravanes assembled... a task that easily made my "top 10 list" for the most frustrating things I've done that were supposed to be "fun". :dead:

Here's all the pieces it takes to make a paravane from the KA set, plus a safety razor for scale:

Image

It was a complete nightmare to get them together and straight... and just for kicks, my 8th and last paravane jumped out of my tweezers and went flying as I was trying to get the tail fins on. I found it, but the fins were missing... I searched forever trying to find them but couldn't.Then later on a total miracle happened and I happened across them on a shelf while looking for more blades!

Anyway, here they are drying, with a couple of the kit paravanes thrown in on the lower right to show why I went though that torture!:

Image

Image

My final modification for the week was on the skylights which sit against the aft lower portion of the superstructure. For reasons know only to Trumpter they are molded to stand alone with a space between the back of the skylights and the exterior bulkhead but on the real ship they are actually attached to the bulkhead. I added a piece of styrene to the back of each, puttied and sanded each individual piece and glued them to the bulkhead. They stick out a bit more than they should unfortunately but there was really no decent way around it as the KA deck was made to fit the (wrong) kit setup. I also gave up on the back half of my conduit line because it just looked crappy. I think I'll add bits and pieces of the conduits in the more blank areas of the superstructure but I just don't have the materials or the patience to add them all. Yet again to the aftermarket... Make some preformed PE conduit line replacements and make some $$$ from Bismarck builders!

Image

Until next time! :wave_1:

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Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck


Last edited by Channell on Sun May 26, 2013 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:53 pm 
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Well, not fast but progress :smallsmile: that's always a good thing! Looks good so far.

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:59 pm 
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Ronald47 wrote:
Well, not fast but progress :smallsmile: that's always a good thing! Looks good so far.


Just building the paravanes took about 6 hours. I've built entire models in less time!

But I took the "long way home" on this build. I probably would have been done if I didn't redo all the portholes; that took dozens of hours. Good thing I'm not working on a deadline!

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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:32 pm 
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Throwing in a couple more progress pics...

Image

Image

Image

Hopefully the next update will have the first layer of the superstructure "cake" painted and permanently installed.

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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:16 pm 
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hello Jason
your "bisy" progressing well ,it is on track for do something exceptional :thumbs_up_1:
cheers
Nicolas

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 7:08 pm 
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Ady wrote:
A final word on swastikas... it might seem strange to us here in America but I guess most of Europe has a problem with the symbol of the tyrannical and utterly evil loonies who conquered and looted their lands and killed millions of their citizens only 70 years ago... much less the German people themselves who saw their country literally burned to the ground. Go figure...

I was born WAY after the fact in the late 70's but WW2 touched my family too; my grandma was just a kid but was living in rural Denmark when the Nazis invaded, my grandpa was an airplane mechanic in WW2 who is responsible for painting dozens of naked ladies on American bombers , and my great grandfather designed airplane engines for Pratt and Whitney during the war.

Our family did our part to make sure I could grow up in a world where I could build models of Nazi superweapons covered with swastikas and still publicly shout a big F%*! Hitler!!!!! and I am honestly thankful for that. I am gonna aim to show history as it was here but in no way do I support or believe in Nazi ideology.

I am glad they are gone, and I am glad the Bismarck is on the bottom of the Atlantic. I am sorry so many died to make it so.

This is something that I have never really understood either. My grandfather fought in Burma and spent the best part of three years in a Japanese POW camp but I don't have a problem with seeing the flag of the rising sun or the "meatball" on Japanese aircraft. These were as much a symbol of oppression and fear as the Swastika was.

That mother looks huge anyways. Wouldn't mind it myself but space would be even more of a problem than the price to me I'm afraid.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Looking GREAT! All that PE would be my living hell.

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Great discussion and info here, but I have a question:

I have the Pontos detail set and there are a bunch of what are clearly portholes and their covers on the PE sheet....but no instructions about what do do with them.

Given they have the solid covers, I'm assuming these are for the portholes on the superstructure (not the hull).

Or are they? The instructions say nothing at all about them. Which is a bit confusing!

Cheers,

Tim W.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 10:05 pm 
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TimW42 wrote:
Great discussion and info here, but I have a question:

I have the Pontos detail set and there are a bunch of what are clearly portholes and their covers on the PE sheet....but no instructions about what do do with them.

Given they have the solid covers, I'm assuming these are for the portholes on the superstructure (not the hull).

Or are they? The instructions say nothing at all about them. Which is a bit confusing!

Cheers,

Tim W.


I'm pretty sure Pontos did the same as KA with regard to the portholes; here's how mine start life:

Image

Image


(The porthole rings with shields are mostly on the 1st level of the superstructure, BTW)

The intent is to put the empty ring around the kit molded porthole opening after scraping off the molded porthole "eyebrow". Check out Anton's (hopefully not yet dead) Bismarck thread for example:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=144178

The main reason for them is because many of the kit portholes are warped and slapping the whole thing on top over the kit ports "solves" that problem with minimum effort as well as adding the "eyebrow" and porthole shields (for those portholes that had them) all in 1 shot.

(Here's where I get preachy so disregard if needed. :heh:)

If you look at photos of the real Bismark however, you will see the installed PE porthole rings are completely out of scale and not anywhere near that visible:

Image

Image

The PE rings should be about half as wide and thick, which would also make them impossible to handle without crushing. When translated to 1/200 scale, the rings pretty much vanish.

In my opinion, most of the original kit portholes are completely unacceptable as they are warped and generally poorly molded. So you have 2 options: "quick and dirty" with aftermarket PE for a decent but ultimately inaccurate appearance or complete porthole replacement (which is a giant 50+ hour long PITA) and chopping up the PE for a more accurate look.

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Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:49 am 
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Channell wrote:
TimW42 wrote:
Great discussion and info here, but I have a question:

I have the Pontos detail set and there are a bunch of what are clearly portholes and their covers on the PE sheet....but no instructions about what do do with them.

Given they have the solid covers, I'm assuming these are for the portholes on the superstructure (not the hull).

Or are they? The instructions say nothing at all about them. Which is a bit confusing!

Cheers,

Tim W.


I'm pretty sure Pontos did the same as KA with regard to the portholes; here's how mine start life:

Image

Image


(The porthole rings with shields are mostly on the 1st level of the superstructure, BTW)

The intent is to put the empty ring around the kit molded porthole opening after scraping off the molded porthole "eyebrow". Check out Anton's (hopefully not yet dead) Bismarck thread for example:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=144178

The main reason for them is because many of the kit portholes are warped and slapping the whole thing on top over the kit ports "solves" that problem with minimum effort as well as adding the "eyebrow" and porthole shields (for those portholes that had them) all in 1 shot.

(Here's where I get preachy so disregard if needed. :heh:)

If you look at photos of the real Bismark however, you will see the installed PE porthole rings are completely out of scale and not anywhere near that visible:

Image

Image

The PE rings should be about half as wide and thick, which would also make them impossible to handle without crushing. When translated to 1/200 scale, the rings pretty much vanish.

In my opinion, most of the original kit portholes are completely unacceptable as they are warped and generally poorly molded. So you have 2 options: "quick and dirty" with aftermarket PE for a decent but ultimately inaccurate appearance or complete porthole replacement (which is a giant 50+ hour long PITA) and chopping up the PE for a more accurate look.


Jason--

Thanks for the input. Wow...a 50+ hour PITA...not sure I have that in me, though I can see the attraction. I may just go the PE route (I'm weak and unworthy... :smallsmile: )

I am having a blast with this kit, though. I'm usually an armor/aircraft modeller but there's something about the big ships....I have the 1/200th AZ and the Revell Snowberry completed and pre-ordered the Hornet.

The various discussions here about the boot topping saved me A LOT of heartburn! I never would have figured on the hull shape being an issue; right now I like how it's going.

Guess I should start a thread on this!

Regards,

Tim W.


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 9:55 am 
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TimW42 wrote:

Jason--

Thanks for the input. Wow...a 50+ hour PITA...not sure I have that in me, though I can see the attraction. I may just go the PE route (I'm weak and unworthy... :smallsmile: )

I am having a blast with this kit, though. I'm usually an armor/aircraft modeller but there's something about the big ships....I have the 1/200th AZ and the Revell Snowberry completed and pre-ordered the Hornet.

The various discussions here about the boot topping saved me A LOT of heartburn! I never would have figured on the hull shape being an issue; right now I like how it's going.

Guess I should start a thread on this!

Regards,

Tim W.


Naw, you are just smart! :cool_1: I do like the look of my new portholes but the whole " cost vs value equation" is lower than I first anticipated. Burnout has taken it's toll on this build as well and I could have been done already if I had stuck with the program. It's too easy to get overly ambitious and then overwhelmed by a big project!

Otherwise yea, do a log! There are never too many build logs, especially of interesting kits like this one.

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Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 12:50 pm 
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Hey Jason,

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=121249: This was the site I gathered all of your information. Check out this site, not sure if it was mentioned here; but it contains many of the technical plans and photos provided by the Blohm + Voss GmbH Shipyard, in Hamburg, Germany who built her.

http://www.bismarck-class.dk

Again thank you...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:49 pm 
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Quote:

I'm pretty sure Pontos did the same as KA with regard to the portholes; here's how mine start life:

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y44 ... 399194.jpg
http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y44 ... 9aa2a5.jpg


(The porthole rings with shields are mostly on the 1st level of the superstructure, BTW)

The intent is to put the empty ring around the kit molded porthole opening after scraping off the molded porthole "eyebrow". Check out Anton's (hopefully not yet dead) Bismarck thread for example:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=144178

The main reason for them is because many of the kit portholes are warped and slapping the whole thing on top over the kit ports "solves" that problem with minimum effort as well as adding the "eyebrow" and porthole shields (for those portholes that had them) all in 1 shot.

(Here's where I get preachy so disregard if needed. :heh:)

If you look at photos of the real Bismark however, you will see the installed PE porthole rings are completely out of scale and not anywhere near that visible:

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y44 ... 634e36.jpg
http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y44 ... 62b31d.jpg

The PE rings should be about half as wide and thick, which would also make them impossible to handle without crushing. When translated to 1/200 scale, the rings pretty much vanish.

In my opinion, most of the original kit portholes are completely unacceptable as they are warped and generally poorly molded. So you have 2 options: "quick and dirty" with aftermarket PE for a decent but ultimately inaccurate appearance or complete porthole replacement (which is a giant 50+ hour long PITA) and chopping up the PE for a more accurate look.


I don't think the portholes are unacceptable as is, because they really are so small: On the worse warped maybe a tiny strand of putty curled on the washed-out edge, plus delicate painting with gloss black and a wash, will do for me... I think the moulded-on eyebrows, and even the moulded-on port covers, are sort of ok too...

One thing I did do is counter-sink the whole deck so the edge of a self-adhesive wood deck should end up flush with the hull sides: It was very hard work and took many hours, but the fit of the deck is very sound so that ended up fine, with a consistent protruding hull edge of about 0.7 mm all around (for a wood deck that is about 0.3 or 0.4 mm for both Pontos and Ka model). This was with some scrapping off of the plastic deck surface near the peak of the final curve towards the bow. That part did not want the deck to sit deeper no matter how much I scrapped, as the vertical hull curvature is so steep there that you have to bevel the deck at an extremely slanted angle to follow the slanted shape of the hull's edge...

I have got both the Pontos and Ka Model decks and detail sets: The Photo etch is sturdier on the Ka models, which may be less in scale but seems much easier to install. The Pontos set is the basic one and is still almost overwhelming...

You cannot see the rifling of the main guns in the pontos set, but they are etrememly nice anyways...

I would spray that photo-etch with lacquer matte black paint, from spray cans most likely, just to make the weaker parts sturdier and more workable... This would help painting problems too...

The Pontos deck has much narrower wood deck planking, on the order of 30-40% compared to Ka models, and a comparison to Bismarck wreck footage shows this is correct (amazingly enough, as it seems as fine as some 1/700 scale I have seen!)...

I am still a bit perplexed as to which deck I like better: The Pontos is in scale but the "wood effect" is less intense than with Ka models because so many striations actually darken it, a bit like a gray haze... Its wood tinge is also darker and yellower than Ka models, but that is said to be correct...: Here are comparison photos to help you make up your mind:


Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Of note is that the Pontos deck had some very slight cracking damage in an upper superstructure deck, which I felt compelled to fix with a drop of crazy glue and a minuscule application of thickened paint, followed by slicing back the planking into the paint, but it would probably have been nearly invisible even if left alone. Ka model's basic set definitely had more secure packaging, from the results at least...

Gaston


Last edited by Timmy C on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Removed [img] tags for the quoted post to save room and bandwidth


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:50 am 
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Nice updates.

I had a few instances of cracking with the deck, but nothing that wasn't fixable after getting it in place. It's remarkable how well it goes together, given the large size of some of those deck sections.

Question: Were the hoses/life preservers painted the same color as the superstructure? I've tried to tell form photos, but it's not clear.

Any thoughts?

Tim W.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:07 am 
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Awesome awesome awesome! :thumbs_up_1:

And thanks a ton for doing the comparison pics between the prontos and ka decks! While i have been planning to do my bismarck deck with individual planks, I am starting to realize that I have a stash that is quickly mounting up, and actually want to get some models finished for my own collection since commisisons are taking up the bulk of my time. I have almost resigned to the idea that I am going to have to use a pre-fab wooden deck on this beast, and those pics of your just made up my mind on which one to get if I go that route. Overscale or not, I like the look of the KA one better, so that will be the route I take.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:58 pm 
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One idea I've got in my head is to cut up the deck and install it in small pieces, mixing planks up in the process to break up the look of the grain. It's too late for this build but I have a 1/200 Arizona and KA set for that model waiting to be built and will probably try it.

It's something a Bismarck builder out there might consider; it would not be nearly as difficult as hand-laying a wooden deck with basswood strips and would offer the same realistic effect.

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