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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:45 am 
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Hey, never mind guys. I got the information I needed from a poster on the SubCommittee forum and completed what I think is an acceptable design.
Attachment:
jackstaff3-6.jpg
jackstaff3-6.jpg [ 16.07 KiB | Viewed 1689 times ]

Attachment:
jackstaff3-8.jpg
jackstaff3-8.jpg [ 19.07 KiB | Viewed 1689 times ]

CHEERS!!!

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Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:40 am 
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Location: Port Orchard, Wa
Rdutnell,

I'm sorry I didn't get in on this earlier, but it looks like you've approximated what the ships had. As I recall from serving aboard the Barb, the jackstaff mount was similar to your design; a flanged socket, which was temporarily held in place by either one or two pushbutton pins that passed through the aft edge of the sail. As for the size of the jackstaff, it was probably not more than 1 inch in diameter. Here's the installation on the Gato:
Attachment:
File comment: Photo of flag and pennants of USS Gato, SSN-615, by Ken Hart. Courtesy of NavSource.org
SSN 615.jpg
SSN 615.jpg [ 108.04 KiB | Viewed 1663 times ]


Hope this helps/confirms what you've found. Although I'm interested in the 'short hull' 594s, I really enjoy seeing the work you're doing with the Greenling. :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

John :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:13 am 
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Cool! Thanks John! :thumbs_up_1:

Great picture! It's nice to know that I got the basic design right, even if it is a bit big. At 1/144 scale, 1" on the ship would be 0.007" on the model. Obviously, this is pushing the limits of what can be built. The diameter of mine is 0.025", which would be 3.75" on the ship. A bit large perhaps, but not to much so that it looks out of place I don't think.

Anyway, the AutoCad model is completed and I will be posting some images shortly.

Thanks again John!!!

_________________
Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:01 pm 
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UPDATE 23

Hi All!

It has been a while since my last update, but that is not because I have not been making progress. Rather, it is because it got to onerous maintaining two logs, and the other Forum I have been posting to, the SubCommittee Forum
(http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB3/ ... 35&t=11272), allows posting multiple pix at one time rather than having to put them in one by one, which is a lot faster. Anyway, the AutoCad model is completed, so I thought I would post the final results.

The first image shows the port side view, as well as the front and aft views.
Attachment:
Wip-023-01.jpg
Wip-023-01.jpg [ 127.02 KiB | Viewed 1630 times ]

The next two images show the starboard side from oblique angles.
Attachment:
Wip-023-02.jpg
Wip-023-02.jpg [ 64.65 KiB | Viewed 1630 times ]

Attachment:
Wip-023-03.jpg
Wip-023-03.jpg [ 66.64 KiB | Viewed 1630 times ]

Here is a close up image of the forward escape trunk area. You can clearly see the sonar fairing, the retractable cleats, as well as other detailing.
Attachment:
Wip-023-04.jpg
Wip-023-04.jpg [ 40.11 KiB | Viewed 1630 times ]

In the next image some of the detailing on the port side of the sail can be seen, including, but not limited to the bow-light/jack staff attachment (the staff itself is not part of the model), the hull numbers, the ladders, the port side navigation light and the open bridge closure and windshield (another good thing about the plastic being clear).
Attachment:
Wip-023-05.jpg
Wip-023-05.jpg [ 47.46 KiB | Viewed 1630 times ]

The next image shows the forward section of the ship on the starboard side. The sail including the search and attack periscopes (aft), the BRA-21 Antenna, the BRD-6 ECM, the top of the BRA-21 antenna and snorkel inductor (fwd) are visible on top of the sail. All but the top of the BRA-21 antenna are separate parts. The bow light/portable jack staff is seen on the bow. Barely discernible aft of the sonar dome line are some of the bow draft numbers.
Attachment:
Wip-023-06.jpg
Wip-023-06.jpg [ 46.92 KiB | Viewed 1630 times ]

An image showing the bottom of the ship, as seen from the front, is shown next. You can see the some of the MBT flood hole baffles, the rod meter (not included in the model) and the Secondary Propulsion Motor (SPM).
Attachment:
Wip-023-07.jpg
Wip-023-07.jpg [ 81.63 KiB | Viewed 1630 times ]

The SPM is shown in more detail in the next image. Additional MBT flood hole baffles may be seen as well. The hole at the top of the picture is one of the mounting holes.
Attachment:
Wip-023-08.jpg
Wip-023-08.jpg [ 43.44 KiB | Viewed 1630 times ]

As you can see from the images, if you have been following this build, the final product is a bit more elaborate than I originally imagined. The final part diagram is shown below.
Attachment:
Wip-023-09.jpg
Wip-023-09.jpg [ 146.2 KiB | Viewed 1630 times ]

As you can see my original concept of a dozen parts expanded a wee bit to 27 parts. Designing the model in AutoCad was so much fun that I just kept going. I figured that even if my buddy can’t make all of the parts, the fun of doing it made it worth it. As for the SPM assembly, that was probably a little bit of an overkill, because I doubt if it will ever be retracted, but making it retractable was beneficial for three reasons. First, if it was fixed to the hull, it would be a protrusion begging to be broken off, so making it a separate part eliminated this potential. Second, I think it is a cool feature (if it works), even if it is never used. Third, it was friggin’ fun to do!

The final image shows the metal parts template. It is shown actual size and enlarged for better viewing. As you can see, it also got a bit more elaborate than I originally thought, but not by much.
Attachment:
Wip-023-10.jpg
Wip-023-10.jpg [ 123.3 KiB | Viewed 1630 times ]

Now that the design has been completed, the DWG (drawing) files have been converted to STL (stereolithography) files and sent to my buddy, the waiting begins.

How long the wait will be, I do not know. My buddy leaves for China Thursday and will be gone 2 weeks. Since I would be extremely surprised if he got them made before he leaves, I expect the wait will be 3 weeks or so. What happens next? I have no idea.

To begin with, I’m not sure my buddy has had time to look at the latest design, so I’m not sure that he knows that it has expanded from 12 to 27 parts. Though I think the chances are small, he may not be able, or willing, to do this many parts. If that happens, I will have to rethink the design.

Otherwise, it all depends on how the parts turn out. The test parts, even though they fit together well and had sufficient detail to show that the moveable planes was possible, were a different design and did not have any detailing, so I really have no idea how they will turn out. Under the best of circumstances, I am not naïve enough to think that Murphy (as in Murphy’s Law) won’t make an appearance somewhere. With 27 pieces, it seems unlikely that I won’t have an issue with one or more of them. The question is how many there will be. And how hard they will be to fix.

The metal too, is still a big unknown that we haven’t talked that much about. He told me where to get the metal, but I haven’t started looking into that yet, and even though I have completed the template layout, we still haven’t talked about what format he needs it in. In my limited experience with laser cutters, 2D line drawings were used and I imagine that is the case with the one he has. I also do not know if the laser he has can etch as well as cut by simply reducing the beam strength, or if it can only cut.

So there are still many unknowns to come. I’ll keep you posted when something changes.

CHEERS!!!

_________________
Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:31 pm 
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Great Russ,
happy to have such a buddy able to make this!
I lost my ... let me say ... Vitamin "B" like Buddy unfortunately to a car accident some years ago. He was in photo etching branch and made some sets for me at 1/35 tanks at a time, where Verlinden and Sheppard Pain and coming up were the major stars there. Long time ago.

I will keep always an open eye on forthcoming here. :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:55 pm 
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Oh man Christian,
I am sorry for your loss bud! :pout:
I have been fortunate and have never lost anyone I really care about and can only imagine how hard that would be, having lost a few pets I dearly loved over the years. I guess though, if I live long enough, I too will share your pain on another level.

Here's to your buddy. CHEERS!!!

_________________
Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:28 pm 
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UPDATE 24 – 1/18/2012

Hi All,

First, let me start by saying that the forum seems to be acting up, in that it won’t let me insert Smilies or change my font styling. Nor will it let me insert pictures, so I am going to try to see if connecting to PhotoBucket works.

There haven’t been any major changes since my last update. My buddy is still in China and the parts have not yet been made, but it turns out that my buddy’s trip to China may have been a blessing in disguise. I have been asked to write a paper on the build for the SubCommittee Report on-line magazine, and in the process of writing the paper I discovered that I had an alignment problem with the rear escape trunk, which you may recall lies mostly on part 8, but partially on part 7 as well. Somehow, the sides didn’t match with the parts aligned properly. The other features (the waterline and anti-skid line) matched, but the escape trunk lines were off. I was able to fix it and redo the two parts, but had my buddy not gone to China, they probably would have been built incorrectly. The extra time also allowed me to drill a small hole in the top of the snorkel inductor for a whip antenna, a feature that probably should be included.

On a related note, I discovered something pretty cool I thought I would share. For some time now I have noticed that AutoCad has a little icon that looks like a camera and I knew that it was possible to do a “walk around” or “fly-by”, so I wondered if I could make a video of the model. I typed “making autocad video” in Google and found a little tutorial on how to do it, and it is really quite easy. You simply pick a point or path for the camera to follow, and a point or path for it to aim at, tell it how many frames per second to shoot and how long to shoot, then select the output format, and you get a video.

I decided to try it, so for a path I drew a circle and rotated it 45 degrees so that it would pass over the bow and under the stern, as seen in the image below.

Image

For some reason, AutoCad went into horizon mode so it looks like Greenling is doing a trick at a water park and leaping through a hoop like a dolphin. Wouldn’t that be something to see?
Anyway, I then used the ANIPATH Command to generate the video. I used the red circle as the path and the center of the ship as the target. After a few tries experimenting with the settings, including camera angle and resolution, I created the attached video. Just click on the image and the video should open a new window and play the video.

Image

I decided to give it a second try, but this time I drew an ellipse, instead of a circle and rotated it only 5 degrees, instead of 45 degrees, to use as the camera path (blue), and instead of using the middle of the ship as the target, I drew another ellipse, roughly corresponding to the hull of the ship at the midpoint (green) and used that for the target.

Image

After again experimenting with the number of frames per second, the video length, and the camera angle, and increasing the resolution, I made a second video.

Image

The videos aren’t top quality, but for the short time I spent making them, they are pretty good. More experimentation with the various settings would no doubt result in a much nicer video. For one thing, even the last image was created using only the second level of resolution, and the number of frames per second was relatively low. Going to the highest resolution and increasing the frames per second would certainly produce a more detailed video with smoother movement.
Of course processing time will increase, but that isn’t that bad anyway. The second image at the 2nd level of resolution (600x800), at 25 frames per second took maybe 5 minutes to process, and that is with my computer, that I just took to IT with hard drive issues. It has been running slow in the last few weeks, and then the hard drive started making this obnoxious grinding sound, so it is at IT getting checked and reformatted. Boo Hoo!!! Oh well, at last it didn’t die when I was in the middle of designing the model, because my back up does not have AutoCad.

As a side note, to show how fast processing speed is increasing, the tutorial I used was titled “Creating Rendered Animations in AutoCAD Architecture 2009”. When discussing processing time, it says, “I have decided to set my movie for a Duration of 20 seconds and with the 20 Frame rate, this will require 400 frames. Rendering a single frame can take anywhere from seconds to minutes so lets say one frame takes an average of about 30 seconds (30sx400 =12000s/60s =200min/60min =3.33hrs)… High quality can easily keep your machine busy for hours and hours which is why professionals use ‘Render Farms’.” Three or four years later, I used a Duration of 30 seconds with the 25 Frame rate, requiring 750 frames and it took maybe 5 minutes to process on an ailing laptop. We no longer need farms because we all have our own gardens now. :o)

I will keep you posted, and let you know if anything changes.

CHEERS!!!

_________________
Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Hello Jason

I am pretty refractory to computing,but ,I must confess,the work that you have provided is great
bravo
nicolas

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:18 am 
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LE BOSCO wrote:
Hello Jason

I am pretty refractory to computing,but ,I must confess,the work that you have provided is great
bravo
nicolas

Hey Thanks Nicolas!

But my name is Russ, not Jason!:Thumbs_up:

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Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:24 am 
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Rdutnell wrote:
LE BOSCO wrote:
Hello Jason

I am pretty refractory to computing,but ,I must confess,the work that you have provided is great
bravo
nicolas

Hey Thanks Nicolas!

But my name is Russ, not Jason!:Thumbs_up:



Russ ,sorry !!!!,but too much breathe the vapors of glue and mastic ,is not good for my neurons :-)
cheers
nicolas

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:53 am 
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Hey, no problemo Nicolas.
I can relate! :)

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Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:39 pm 
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UPDATE 25

Good evening all!

I don’t have any update on Greenling but I found a good way to keep myself amused over the weekend. Remember that print I thought about building before I decided to build Greenling? If you don’t remember it, or didn’t see it, I have posted it again below. Well, I decided to make it in AutoCad. The results are also shown below.

CHEERS!!!


Attachments:
01-381_large_image_Page_00.jpg
01-381_large_image_Page_00.jpg [ 78.68 KiB | Viewed 1539 times ]
02-700DisplayPix_Page_14.jpg
02-700DisplayPix_Page_14.jpg [ 40.47 KiB | Viewed 1539 times ]
03-700DisplayPix_Page_15.jpg
03-700DisplayPix_Page_15.jpg [ 84.51 KiB | Viewed 1539 times ]
04-700DisplayPix_Page_17.jpg
04-700DisplayPix_Page_17.jpg [ 62.52 KiB | Viewed 1539 times ]
05-700DisplayPix_Page_16.jpg
05-700DisplayPix_Page_16.jpg [ 57.45 KiB | Viewed 1539 times ]
06-700DisplayPix_Page_18.jpg
06-700DisplayPix_Page_18.jpg [ 71.19 KiB | Viewed 1539 times ]

_________________
Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Hi All,

It has been a couple of weeks since I have posted an update because there hasn't been anything to report. However, I just talked to my buddy and the STL parts have been sent to the shop for manufacture. He said that it would be a week, maybe two, before the parts are actually made. I will post pix as soon as I get them.

CHEERS!!!

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Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:10 am 
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Hi Russ, this is an utterly fascinating thread, thanks for sharing the process. I do 3D work myself and would like to try my hand at this kind of project some time. Thanks for the inspiration!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:15 am 
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Thanks Crazer!

I'm glad you are enjoying it and that you are inspired. It really has been a lot of fun doing it, and if you do 3D work, you got a leg up on me, because although I have been using AutoCad in 2D for many years, I had only dabbled with 3D once or twice before starting this project.

Since you work with 3D, do you also use 3D printers or SLA?

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Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:14 am 
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Rdutnell wrote:
....I had only dabbled with 3D once or twice before starting this project.....


Hello Russ
I had not taken into consideration this information......I applaud your work still stronger :-)
"bravo pour la maîtrise de l'outil'
regards
Nicolas

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Ahh Nicolas,

Once again, you are all too kind.

Of course, being a typical American, in the sense that I speak only English (a fact I regret), I had to find a translation for "bravo pour la maîtrise de l'outil", so I learned something new today, and I thank you for that.

I wouldn't say however that I am a master. If you ski or snowboard, I would say that I am a blue/green 3D modeler, and just as a boarder or skier is challenged and gets a thrill out of carving their way down a fairly easy run, I have found this basic 3D project to be a very enjoyable run.

5-10 years ago I would have been strapped onto 8' long wooden boards with leather straps. Today I am riding a modern snowboard with a short learning curve. Today's AutoCad is simply amazing. Combine that with the power of the internet and anybody can become proficient at 3D modeling in a rather short period of time.

True, AutoCad is fairly expensive, but in another 5-10 years, even cheap CAD programs will have all of the features of AutoCad, and be just as easy to use, if they aren't available already. And 3-D printing will be affordable and better. That is why I have no doubt that this type of modeling will become a big contributor to our hobby in the not so distant future.

Even now, 3D printers are coming down in price. A person could buy a state of the art 3D printer for $2,000 - $3,000.

http://store.makerbot.com/3d-printers.h ... BI1-3DPK-4

The filaments ("ink") are somewhat expensive at $48-$90/kg, but I have no idea how many models this would make, since I don't know the density of the material. If it would make one model, you are in the ballpark of what it would cost you to buy a model. If it makes more, it would actually be cheaper. Of course, I understand that they use a lot of energy, so you have to factor that in, but it seems to me that if you could afford the initial investment, you could both make parts for sale, even taking special orders, and also print other people’s parts that they designed.

I've been giving this considerable thought, and if I had an extra $3000 laying around, I would buy one now. I don't, but if I was sure that I could sell enough to pay for the machine, I would get one anyway. I just know if the market is there yet, though I suspect that it is.

To see more on this topic, check out these 2 threads:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=148935

http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB3/ ... =4&t=11354

Of course, I best not put the cart before the horse. I still don't know if my Greenling parts are going to come out right or not. Hopefully we will know by the end of the week.

Thanks again Nicolas and CHEERS ALL!!!

_________________
Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Rdutnell wrote:
Thanks Crazer!

I'm glad you are enjoying it and that you are inspired. It really has been a lot of fun doing it, and if you do 3D work, you got a leg up on me, because although I have been using AutoCad in 2D for many years, I had only dabbled with 3D once or twice before starting this project.

Since you work with 3D, do you also use 3D printers or SLA?


Hi Russ, for years I designed card models of ships and the occasional real space or aircraft subject. I still do when inspiration strikes. I have toyed with the 3D printing concept but have not tried it yet. I am seriously considering using the technology for major shapes on an upcoming scratchbuild, I don't think the technology is refined enough for detail work in my favored scales of 1/700 and 1/350. At least, at this point it's still cost prohibitive unless you're a manufacturer.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:06 am 
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UPDATE 26 – 3/6/2013

Good Morning Everyone!

The parts have been printed. My buddy just texted me an image of the parts still on the SLA printer. Needless to say, I am pretty excited. The parts look pretty cool, and if you look in the lower left hand corner you can see that it looks like the screw came out nicely.


Image

Unfortunately, the detailing on the parts, either isn’t visible or isn’t present. It almost makes me wonder if the wrong parts were printed. I should know by the first part of next week since my buddy is coming to town Sunday, and is bringing the parts with him.
I will post pictures when I get them.

CHEERS!!!

_________________
Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Location: Paris France
all this seems to be "cool" and I understand your exitation...... it's like being a young father again :-) :-)
congrats for the job !
cheers
Nicolas

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