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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:49 am 
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There are two tiny ones (one old, one new), but I thought it was better to make my own :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Model Monkey
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Love the Legos. Brilliant invention.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:31 am 
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Working again...

Attachment:
progress.jpg


One reason the model was shelved for a while was this:

Attachment:
decks_58.jpg


Had to drill in a perfect deck about 10 1mm holes, add glue, put it back. Not sure why it lifted a bit, but it did so after a wash.

Attachment:
decks_59.jpg


Attachment:
deckupdate_17.jpg


Damage repaired, repainted, added some more dirty spots. Not happy with the repair yet in the top, may need to add more lines to the repair zone... rest of the deck now ok, time to move to the front deck....

Attachment:
deckupdate_18.jpg


Winches look ok but painting skills :pout: More practice required


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:10 am 
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Location: Belgium
:Mad_6: :Mad_6: :Mad_6:

That's pretty demotivating indeed...

But a great solution to fix it!

What did you use as a thinner for the wash? What glue did you use for the deck?
Could the wash have loosened the glue bond between hull and deck? If there was some tension on the deck (hull shrinkage), that might have allowed the deformation?

The winches look great!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:00 am 
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The fun part of the decks is that they were done in the earliest stages of my DIY carreer, so beneath that deck the glue is simply not spread out everywhere and some spots were filled with putty (ohno). Some parts got loose and I thought I got all of them by drilling in and repairing prior to priming. Normally for washing I use Sansodor by Newton & Winsor. I'm not exactly sure where the deck got loose as it did; I think it's most likely I simply didn't see the deck wasn't fixed... something to be careful with for the other side of the hull.

One aspect of the painting I all not happy with is that corrections of bad black lines leaves too much of a dark film on the deck, so I really have to aim better. I also should complain less because these macro shots are really brutal... learning on the job :big_grin:

Now it's time to finish etch #11 and send it to Haulers....

Attachment:
deckupdate_19.jpg


Edit: done!

Attachment:
etch_11.gif


Lots of smaller parts that escaped my attention, plus 50% eyebrows / porthole covers for Johan's HMS Ark Royal build...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:03 pm 
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Model Monkey
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Superb deck rescue!

Love the photo-etch work you do, too.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:40 am 
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:big_grin: I love A clockwork Orange! Everything by Kubrick, in fact...

Johan will be very happy! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:58 am 
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No, Johan will not be happy because he selected the most difficult variant of the eyebrows in terms of placing accuracy (0.1mm offset between the porthole edge and the eyebrow). I have to do dozens, he will have to do half a thousand :big_grin:

I hope everything in the etch works out; always a bit of experimentation in my 2D prints. The parts entirely top left are the awning stanchions foot plates... that should add some wonderful detail to the deck edge... I also redid the capstans because... I lost the aft one. :cool_2:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:18 am 
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SovereignHobbies
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I lack the superlatives necessary here.

Amazing work EJ.

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http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:32 am 
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Thanks! And be sure to give Michiel a very wide selection of paints next weekend! For home-fleet grey I'll probably stick to my mix (too late to change now... ) but I want to add some 507C details so why not go for the latest :thumbs_up_1: And Semtex, dark deck grey... all tins basically...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:26 am 
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SovereignHobbies
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I think Michiel is taking some of everything from the new range.

I agree about HFG - better that it's consistent than changing half way through!

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Sovereign Hobbies Ltd
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HMS Imperial D09 1/350
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:20 pm 
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I hadn't used the lathe for some time so it took a whole afternoon until I could reliably produce parts again, if it weren't for a small offset on my drill fixed in the tailstock of my Proxxon PD230/E. This offset has always been present and trying other drill chucks didn't solve my problem. I took a few chucks to work and they measured an offset in the Morse Cone I of about 2 to 3 hundreds of a mm, just enough to be troublesome with thin-walled parts I was trying to make (20" signalling projector) . I ordered a ER-11 collet chuck with a MK1 fitting that is supposed to fit in the tailstock, but it doesn't.

Attachment:
lathe_04.jpg


The collet chuck is comparatively pricey but I just had to take a bit off. Using drills with a 1/8" shaft and ditto collet worked quite well. Nearly all my drills have a 2.2mm shaft and a 2.0mm collet doesn't center them properly, so I ordered a new set of drills (only 30€). So it's good news that the Proxxon tailstock that cannot be adjusted is well centered when it leaves the factory but a decent chuck apparently is not on the Proxxon menu. So, now the cost of a 20" signalling projector is €60 each, but who's counting....

Edit: the bottom-left quarter shows the collet nut doesn't capture the collet nicely that's supposed to snap into the nut... now that I know this the drill is perfectly centered.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:06 am 
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Superb work!!! :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:05 am 
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Weekend update :wave_1: (two weekends that is)

Attachment:
update_20181125.jpg


1) Finished all the UP lockers that go below the boat deck; needed to add add the supports to the lockers that we already built a few months ago. Ready for painting. 24 needed, 4 spares.
2) Added most the stanchion foot plates for the quarterdeck. Gone too far, takes hours for barely noticeable detail. Total of 31 needed (21 placed), fore deck only 24.... might be nice one done though... These need to be painted..
3) Bad news: lost the aft capstan. Good news: can make new, better, aft capstan! Note the anchor logo in the top of the capstan... Had to drill in all the holes in the top with a newly acquired set of 0.1mm drills... lost two... not too bad... €12.50 per set of ten.. have to avoid certain movements so learning while doing! Never used drills this small
4) Prototype 20" signaling projected complete sans ventilator on top; etch / lathe experiment works! Very happy with the result of this very fragile sub-model :woo_hoo:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Thats fabulous EJ. I'm particularly impressed with the deck edging... the spurn water, the waterway and the cutting plank details which are now set off by your stanchion foot plates (heel, I guess on page 116 /I3/14 in AOTS Hood), although those refer to the heel on the base of all the stanchions. I also love the drains you have in the waterway... do you have a picture, as I can't find any? Whatever, they are another bit of really nice deck edge detail and will really set your Hood aside from anyone else's.

What are you doing for stanchions...? I'm having this dilemma on my own Hood... Flat PE isn't going to cut it at 200 scale and I cant get machined or solid 1/200 or 1/192 stanchions from anywhere (that I can find).

Finally... do you have ANY idea of the pressure you put on all of us who are building a 200 scale Hood...? :big_grin:

You are getting far more accuracy and more detail into a kit half the size... remember, I have a 350 scale WEM Hood on my office shelf... and every time I see your photos I have a look at it and shake my head in wonder.

And yet we have to follow...! And at twice the size, so it should be easier... but it simply isnt...

I am looking at your 20" projector... I can't see how you can model that amount of accuracy and finesse into something that small...

Stunning, as always EJ :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:28 am 
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Thanks for the comments Bill!

The stanchion heels are indeed from the AOTS Hood; they are not exactly correct as drawn. The AOTS shows them with a 'fold' if you will, but the actual one is symmetrical. That would be too hard to do with 3 etched parts so I went with the fold approach (one part folded, the other one goes through the plate into the hull). I think I took the scuppers from the AOTS as well? They are clearly marked on the drawings so I thought it would be a nice idea. They should have been recessed but soit.

Stanchions: there are going to be individually etched in 0.15mm stainless steel with actual rigging. I already had to designs etched; one failed, the other semi failed. The first one failed as I had no experience in both 0.15mm and steel. The thickness difference is not entirely trivial, as I noticed for 0.10 you can go a bit further than advertised and still get good results, but for 0.15 that was not really the case. I tested three designs, most of them etched away too much material. The second one was going more towards the advertised tolerances, but again not entirely... this worked much better but the holes in the stanchions were about 50% etched through. With my new 0.1mm drill set I can easily correct that. I think :big_grin:

But I thought it was going to work so I already drilled in the position of all them in the quarterdeck. This was actually very tricky as these small drills break easily... a drill press would be nice but I do not have the tools to position the press accurately so by hand it is. The stanchion design will have a heel too (in the right sailing direction... post imminent to explain), that are two small foldable flaps; these also limit how deep the stanchion can go into the model, so two-birds-one-stone. Now, about a third of the stanchions have a cross bar and that actually makes the etched part fairly sturdy. Most etched sets have far fewer cross bars so that helps.

Individual stanchions may be a pain in terms of workload and pulling the rigging through the holes but also "solve" a few items
1) No bending or cutting to shape
2) No "short runs to avoid thermal expansion problems".
3) Easier to place around bollards and such were the lowest line should no continue.
4) Oh so very thin wires; flexible..
5) The railing is now not curved but goes from stanchion-to-stanchion as it should and no trouble with the "spurnwater" line at the bottom of the railing.
Have to do a few more practice runs to see if more changes are needed. I am worried for damage, but that is the case for ordinary etched railing as well. This one might be easier to repair but we'll see.

Railing in 0.15 is actually quite good for 1/350 as these stanchions are quite "crude" on the actual ship. For 1/200 you probably end up with 0.25mm which is still very thin for machining... you'd have to lathe all of them and drill them in? No way that works without CNC and I guess it won't be cheap for a custom job (I cannot drill 0.3mm holes in brass with my hobby tools, you need very high rpms so I cannot even do that at home if I wanted to). I think etching might be a better idea? This is not my problem, fortunately :big_grin:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
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Location: Belgium
Fantastic EJ!!!

Since I'm just getting my feet wet in working with a late, I have some questions for you:

- I got to borrow a friends lathe yesterday, but I'm of course already looking to buy my own : )
Proxxon is easy to find, which is of course convenient. What are your experiences witht the brand? Would you advise it, or should I look elsewhere?
But the PD250E (newer version of 230/E ?) is a bit pricey for me, I would rather get something like the PD150/E. Or are there good reasons to go for the pricier variant?

- where do you get those miniature drills? And the lathe-related tools and accessories like the collet-chuck?

Many thanks!

Marijn


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:36 am 
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Hello Marijn,

I am not a machinist and by far not a lathe expert but I do have some experience. I also noticed the PD230 is now a PD250 so I suppose it has been updated a bit. My reasons for the intermediate model were a) you can pick it up for easy storage, the larger one is much larger (and expensive) and b) the smaller one does not have as many accessories.

The one I really liked: the Quick change tool post: you can take out one chisel and put in another on the fly. I use only two tools, the normal one and a parting tool. I think I bought the parting tool at Micromark; they have a few more accessories for the Microlux lathe (that appears to be a more complete mini lathe) but some work on the Proxxon as well. I also bought a collet set set to replace the three-chuck jaw, but I like that jaw just fine. Also, the PD250 can be upgraded with a milling system... but I haven' bought that one (not sure if I will). With these tools it's tricky at first to decide to go for a professional machine that is really expensive or muddle with these more toyish Proxxon tools.... So, actually the difference in accessories appears small, mainly the toolpost? I do not know how well the 150 performs... something to find on a lathe forum...

I just bought a large set of small drills in sets of 10 at https://www.woodandtools.com/, and 3 set in steps of 0.1mm at https://modelbrouwers.nl/winkel/. Before that I bought some drills at https://www.uschivdr.com/. The latter offers sets with a few of each. I think they are the same drills and prices are comparable, but you do not need many 0,4 drills or larger so getting replacement sets per 10 is really wonderful. The smaller ones are the drills that break at an alarming rate :big_grin: The collet chuck is a generic part I bought at https://www.freesjes.nl/ but I suppose any set will do. I notice the 150 does not have a MK1 center but a MK0.. not sure if there is a collet chuck for that so you need to shop around. There isn't one for the 250E either until you saw half of it off... Or you get lucky and find a normal chuck for the Proxxon that does not have an offset.

But for very small drills getting everything well-centered is really important so I would recommend having that at least. Also, you can use these small drills in styrene only. The 250 (google) goes to 3000 rpm and that is not enough for 0.3mm (or was the poor centering earlier, may have to retry). For 0.3mm holes in brass I use 0.5mm holes and solder some 0.5/0.3 Albion alloy tubing.... The 150 apparent goes to 5000 rpm? Not sure if that is enough...

Styrene is also very very soft so I only make very small parts. If you want to make a conical mast accurately I think it's nearly impossible with this lathe; you can rotate the cross slide to work at an angle but it's too primitive to set the angle accurately (really don't like that). Making conical parts takes me a lot of time...!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:51 am 
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Many thanks for your quick and complete answer EJ! :thumbs_up_1:

Good to know the PD250 kan turn styrene comfortably, as that would be one of the materials I would love to be able to use (next to brass and aluminium).
Also good to know it is possible to turn conical. The machine I borrowed now looks a bit like a more 'artisanal' version of a PD250, and getting the angle right is also a matter of experimentation with that one. Well, you can start with measuring the ofset between the extreme points with the chissel, but that is not very accurate of course.

One more question: can the rod you are working protrude through the back of the chuck, or do you need to cut short lengths to work on?

Luckily, I have plenty of time to decide! First I'l experiment and learn on the borrowed machine, so I'll have a better feel of what I need when buying my own. I'm really spoiled! :big_grin:

EJFoeth wrote:
you do not need many 0,4 drills or larger so getting replacement sets per 10 is really wonderful.

That's the exact reason I asked! :big_grin:

Many thanks again!

Marijn


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:59 am 
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> One more question: can the rod you are working protrude through the back of the chuck, or do you need to cut short lengths to work on?

The 230 I own allows for protruding rods; you have to be careful as styrene tends to whip around a bit and attract berserker cats....

The lathe takes time to learn but I really like having one...! Still have many tricks to learn though but what else is new.


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