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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:34 am 
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Time well spent, EJ!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:41 am 
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Thanks. Took me a few months to pick up enough motivation and free time to continue :smallsmile:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Love it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:32 pm 
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motivational crisis....

at the stage that your model is-aftre 10 short years or so (!)

at you cannot afford to loose motivation ! :Mad_6:

(or get distracted by POW !!! )

best wishes and stick at it

JIM B :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:59 am 
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Oh don't worry, I suffer from bouts of no motivation all the time. My model isn't going so slowly just because it is so much work, but because I have periods of months where I have other things to do. But now I started again... unfortunately my first etch with individual stanchions was a failure... hope to get that one right as well... :cool_2:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:25 am 
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did you have a look at Peter Halls individual stanchions( conceived by me -executed by Peter Hall ! )



Various individual stanchions that can be used to create near to scale guardrails on ships,
using the Single, 2 bar and three bar stanchion and stringing them with a fine thread to suit.

http://atlanticmodels.net/photo-etched% ... scale.html

review here


http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/pe ... eview.html

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:32 am 
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Yes, I have! I added a few changes though, with some folding required at the stanchion foot and that angled bar as a foldable item as well (For Hood I did a quick count and about a third of the stanchions need that angled bar). My first attempt was slightly unfoldable (experimenting, as always), plus, the set was underetched and the holes in the stanchions were all filled. That may have been an error on the etcher's side, but as the design was bad: no harm done. The next set will have three sets of stanchions with slight variations in thickness and hole diameter to see which version comes out best... provided there is no underetching because then I'm lost. I'll update when the re-etch is done, perhaps a nice task for this week...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:06 pm 
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Hello EJ:

I thought I saw where you scratchbuilt your own Carley floats. I just went through your build and can't seem to find where you did it. I am doing a 1/200 Rodney and there is a vendor on Shapeways with Carley floats but I don't remember what size you made for your Hood. I imagine they would be the same for the Rodney. The guy offers 14X9, 12X7, 10.5 X 6.5 and 10 X 6. What size did you make for your Hood?

Edit: Disregard, I found it. Very helpful.

Thanks

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:38 am 
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Attachment:
20170910_181744.jpg
20170910_181744.jpg [ 53.32 KiB | Viewed 567 times ]


Custom photo-etched stanchions and Uschi's 0.03mm rigging. Getting there.... much better than railing attempt #1 that was not even buildable... this one seems to be actually doable. Except it's not, really. Underetching makes it really difficult to pull the wire through so I stopped after 2 lines. Not giving up on the idea though. Design #3 in the works. At the moment the holes on the etching form too much of a weak spot and there are more improvements to be made for this design.

And yes, a few of stanchions are wobbly as I damaged them before taking the shot when cleaning up the workbench...


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:37 am 
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HI EJ-

threading up the Uschi thread THROUGH the stanchions will make you lose the will to live.... :dead: :dead: :dead: :Mad_6:

=|> have you thought about doing it similar to the ones that Peter Hall and I worked on; having an indent rather than a hole

( yes I know--you and absolute scale fidelity et al...!! ) but a bt of paint will form a ball...

that avoids the inherent weakness of pentartion hole in skinny brass

Also do them in stainless steel rather than brass-- structurally stronger

and lastly--use the . oo1 Uschi thread-- far less tension needed for given ' straightness'

especially where the rails go around the curve--it will vastly reduce the tendency for the rail to ' fall ' inboard....

cheers
JB
I am using the Uschi thread-- 001 and 003 on my current project with some degree of success

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http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:59 am 
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Hello Jim,

yes, fitting these lines THROUGH holes is very difficult and time consuming... sometimes you do 5 in a row and then you need 15 minutes + drinks for the next one.... 10x magnification won't help, difficult to get everything in focus.... on the lookout for other types of magnification.... getting good light is most important. I build these ones with the match in the calipers and the reflection is hell, so I had to cover the metal parts. I know scale wise you can barely see the difference with a passing wire and I will be using paint to simulate the stays in the railing as such. However, if experiment 3 will fail I may cancel that. One more try before I give up.

However, a half-method with the wire against a nudge in the stanchion finished with a bit of paint may work as well.... hmm... perhaps I can add those in experiment etch 3.... the advantage is that it is easier to glue; now I have to cut the part going through the last stanchion and I made some mistakes there as well...Edit: I will include them in the test... may be just fine.

At the moment (you cannot see that in this shot) there is a larger 'circle' around each hole that is also present in the real railing, but it only partly compensates for the local weakening of the stanchion (all those classes in structural engineering explaining moment of resistance wasted). I think I'll have to make it a bit better... and this is already in steel; the brassy colour is because of my lousy phone... There is a degree of local over and under-etching, so it's always not quite right. You really need to check each one for being etched properly through. The current design is slightly over-scale... I know I should not fall for the usual trap: having the part magnified 100 times on your monitor and not worrying too much about small details.... this railing is already better than nearly everything I've seen on this scale. A bit more over-scale will be just fine. It's difficult for me to stop worrying about these things :big_grin:

I used 0.03 wire for the lower lines and wanted to use 0.05 for the top one to also get the right scale effect as the top line is heavier. But 0.05 is too much compared to 0.03... I've asked Uschi if he has 0.04 as well (not in his catalogue). I can try the 0.01 lines as well. Fortunately the railing stays actually work as railing stays! You can put quite a bit of strain on the lines; the stanchions and the stays (were applicable) are drilled in 2mm... (the shoe at the bottom of the stanchion are two foldable parts that act as a depth stop; note how they all point in the same direction as on the real ship). There are not many curves/knuckles in the pattern fortunately, but on such a knuckle without a stay the railing may bend a bit. Not too bad, that happens with the real railing too and this is why there typically is a stay; about 25-30% of all stanchions have stays, may more that on typical railing sets. Getting the proper 'pattern' correctly will be a great effect. That is, it I can get it to work. :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:11 pm 
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This dedication to detail is quite breathtaking. I've thought about railings in the past and how I might tackle them... this kind of thing has briefly passed through my mind but I have always chased such thoughts away :D I hope it works out for you, because this would look absolutely stunning.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:59 am 
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Thanks! I've been thinking on the redesign a bit... first I'm going to try rebuilding this exercise again, but only select stanchions that are etched through fully... use the hig-res scanner. If it works continue with the next exercise :)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:23 am 
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I have been battling with the stanchion problem for years, albeit at 1/160 scale. Are the 'rails' rails or chain on the prototype ? Some German modellers also use notches instead of holes, but I felt that it wouldn't work for the chains I need. Curious to see with what solution you will come up.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:04 am 
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Me too :) This is 350 scale, so that's a 3mm-high stanchion and a 0.03mm line. The "real thing" uses galvanized steel wire of a 2" (top line) and 1.5" (bottom two lines) circumference*, so no chains here. I suppose that on this scale it would be very difficult to simulate that properly. I've seen etch sets that make an attempt and it looks quite interesting (overscale but fun). The notch method might work just as well as pulling the wire through the stanchion is indeed tricky; if you find out one stanchion is not eched through when doing the last line, well.... start over. One advantage at 350 scale is that the stanchion is closer to 0.15mm than 0.10mm and in fact quite 'crude' in real life, giving you some space to work with. I think I'll have to switch optivisor too; I know use 10x with a very shallow depth of field (perhaps 3x or 5x is fine). And a 0.15mm drill to clean the stanchions may be useful as well, but it may probably destroy more than in will solve (and I do not have such a drill...). The current set also had a bit of detail on the foot that resulted in over-etching (learning by doing) and the strength of the stanchion is not uniform over its span, so even if everything works out I need a new set.

The idea to commercialize this set under my new brand "do try this at home" is very far from reality... :heh:

*circumference not confirmed yet, but if it's diameter things would be very weird. My manual of seamanship has an extensive chapter of rope and wire, but haven't found the definitions yet.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:48 am 
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The dimensions of wire-rope and organic rope is usually given by its circumference, because it is difficult to measure the 'diameter' due to the individual strands. A 2" wire-rope would have a diameter of about 16 mm and a 1.5" one of about 12 mm - you could hang a suspension bridge from a 2" diameter wire-rope ... the 16 mm and 12 mm are still quite substantial and not needed for strength, but probably used to prevent from cutting-in when leaning against it etc.

I have home-etched stanchions of about 8 mm height, but had the same problem with over- and under-etching. Using a commercial spray-etching process would probably improve the quality.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:01 am 
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The parts I have now are commercially etched by etchworks.eu, but when you try to push the limits you need to be careful. I am purposely going smaller than their recommended tolerances, finding out how far I can go. Of course I wish for improved accuracy and consistency, but their tolerances are clear and their price is just wonderful. I usually order multiple copies or put the parts on different parts of the set and collect the best ones. This is one of the reasons I should not offer commercial designs...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:33 am 
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I was hoping to make etching an ad-hoc process for me like turning or milling. This is why I started doing it at home. Somehow the process is rather involved, messing around with wet chemistry and always requires some start-up time. Still looking for an affordable alternative ...

One day we may get centrifugal-cast brass stanchions from 3D-printed wax masters ... :big_grin: For the moment the accuracy of the printing process is not good enough yet.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:01 am 
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I've explored home-etching but decided to not do it.... most of the parts people use etching for you can do with styrene, except for doors, hatches and really fine parts. In other words: very tricky to do at home. You need good lighting, a very good printer: that is: you need to have it printed, chemicals, trial & error... I really like having it done for me... 3D printing I have not yet tried; perhaps one day... I think I've jumped through enough hoops to now to "cheat" using a printer! Etching is CAD model building too so there's not much of a difference. 3D stanchions would be much better but they need to be strong, accurate...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:23 am 
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Finished adding margin plank details and plank ends on the aft, boat and forward deck, now moving to the main deck below the boat deck. Also added a cable that is present on many RN warship's aftermost barbette; I've not been able to determine the use of this cable... its made from 0.08mm brass wire. Not much else going on with busy weekends and even rebuilding the main hobby room into a new office space for the wife... so yeah, we'll see. And I'm currently building a new 20-channel power amplifier for the home-cinema system that is demanding an unfair amount of time... :big_grin:

Attachment:
cable_01.jpg
cable_01.jpg [ 39.09 KiB | Viewed 178 times ]


Attachment:
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cable_02.jpg [ 42.04 KiB | Viewed 178 times ]


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