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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:15 am 
"The hangar had to be removed the plane turned 90 degrees and an additional platform erected over the gun barrels for it to be able to take off." - So typical British logic :)

Stunning build my friend and an absolutely incredible level of detail, compares well to some of the finest 1/350 maybe eveb 1/200 scale models!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:17 am 
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Special thanks to Martin for the continious interest and support during the lengthy building process.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:27 pm 
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Location: About 50 miles away from the Gulf of Mexico ( traveling W is you do so :)
That is a beautiful little plane! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:




Jose :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:21 pm 
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Well, it's been a really long time...
In case anyone wonders if I'm still building the Tiger, the answer is YES!

In August the heat and much work prevented me from achieving notable progress.
I had a hard time trying to make nice looking halyards - more on that later.
In September I went on holiday. My better half and I had a beautiful journey which was luckily not without ships.
We went to see (among many other delightful places of interest) this:
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sailing with this:
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I am sure many of you have seen countless pictures of HM ships sailing past this very breakwater:
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And as a bonus I was fortunate enough to be able to photograph these ships:
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So you can see why I wasn't able to proceed with construction.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:30 pm 
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But back to what really counts - construction.
To rig this vessel proved to be a hard nut to crack...
I usually rig my ships using stretched sprue exclusively which gave me much experience with this method over the years.
However I found that sometimes my rigging, especially the signal halyards, is not thin enough and the lines that are really fine tend to be extremely fragile. I found it quite difficult to keep the halyards taut and parallel - I fit them in pairs, like on real ships.
I began to experiment with other materials such as lycra and Caenis.
The former was used for the signal halyards.
The first try failed: the lines pulles out from WEM's lycra were no thinner than my usual stretched sprue and they exerted considerable tension on the yard, breaking it off repeatedly. The yard had not been soldered but this was never a problem with stretched sprue. With the build being in an advanced state I could not think of soldering and had to reinforce the joint with two-component epoxy. The yards inevitably became irregularly thicker which remains an unsightly detail even though I tried to make it less evident by painting darker shades on the underside of them.
Besides, I thought it wise to counterbalance the downward pull of the halyards with lifts out of Caenis which is much stronger than stretched sprue.

The second attempt of making halyards was more successful - another skein of lycra (also from WEM) behaved differently and it wasn't difficult to pull individual and very thin lines out of it.
Despite that it took me more than two weeks to finish this stage.
On one side the thicker, on the other then thinner halyards can be seen:
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On a side note it's hard to paint lycra but I had to give them a shade of brown-beige being signal halyards.

The rest of the rigging is mixture of stretched sprue and Caenis - the latter was used for the dressing lines, which being long, were always prone to sag or being damaged when made out of stretched sprue.

Then came the though part: cage aerials.
I tried my best to make them subtle and have to say that I failed.
David Griffith calles them the Holy Grail of modelmaking and advises to use lycra for the longitudinals.
I found it impossible to do in this build as the cage aerials are not continuous between two hard points and lycra needs to be pulled thight. I used stretched sprue instead and not the finest I could pull because a simple jig was utilesed to fabricate the aerials and even this way they were slightly damaged during handling (the longer aerial is 8 cm long!).
Tiger had late-war type, small diameter aerials in the period depicted and this fact didn't make my job easier at all.
First, really fine wire had to be used for the spacers and there's a lot of them.
A picture helps to understand why I have opted for scratchbuilding the spacers instead of using ones of the WEM set:
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(Here the contruction method can be seen: the spacer rings had been glued to two lines of stretched sprue,
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then blocks have been attached to the jig and two more lines placed above them completed the assembly)
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Second, the small diameter and big number of spacers made the aerial look "dense" despite my effort to produce something really fine.

Third, the spacers had to be painted black which thickened the whole assembly further.
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While still on the jig I pulled three of the lines together to form a cone - this is how the cage aerials end.
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It was a real pain to attach the aerials - their positioning means that this job is not for beginners.
(note how they are attached to the yard)
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To align both sides and fix the after aerial was another test of my dexterity.

In all, I am quite dissatisfied with how they turned out: too evident, too thick and grossly oversize.
I'm sure Jim Baumann would agree. I just could not leave them out and still cheated with their diameter
(one with the right diameter would have looked even denser with the lines being closer together).

I guess at present this is as the best I can do :(


Attachments:
mws2.jpg
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:51 pm 
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Ignore the last picture - it has been posted twice, and there's a surplus 'as' in the last sentence - it's late...

After completing the rigging I went on to provide the flags.

The White Ensign is from Hawk Graphics and the signal flags are from Five Star Models - both excellent products.
Signal flags spell the name of my father who had died while this model was in construction.

At first I attached the flag decals to a piece of aluminum foil to facilitate folding to shape.
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Next I sprayed matte varnish on them and gave them a thin coat of light grey to tone down the colours somewhat.
As a final step I shaped and attached them to the (awkwardly placed) flagstaff and the outermost signal halyards on both sides.

The ship is essentially complete, only the crew needs to be added.

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Attachments:
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mws8.jpg [ 193.49 KiB | Viewed 1232 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Mind = blown. :heh:

Incredible detail, just incredible, and packed into such a small package, too!

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1/200 Trumpeter HMS Nelson
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:52 am 
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Goodwood wrote:
..Incredible detail, just incredible, and packed into such a small package, too!

Yes. This build is cosmic...
I love it!

Rigging is always a challenge. I truly recommend to test metal wire. I am using 0.06mm wire. Comes straight - so no needs to use any forces to make it properly tensioned. Also parallel alignment is quite easy - if rigging at all call be called easy of course :big_grin:

Anyway for cages - chapeau bas :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:22 am 
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I attempted the caged aerials on Friday night with Caenis and the aforementioned loops. I failed to get decent bond on one of my two sets, later learning that trying to pull these tight on the Queen Mary would lead to significant damage of already in-place rigging.

This, however, is so much better thought out and executed that it makes my effort border on embarrassing.

I cannot imagine the level of control you have to attach loops to stretched sprue with this frequency and not result in broken lines.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:04 pm 
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George !!

Thank you for thinking me as a rigging enthusiast! :wave_1:

I have pondered your photos most of the day whilst at work, eating, driving and now in front of PC with a cup of tea !

and have also pondered if I ought to say anything...

Your methodology of producing the cage aerials most excellent.
The consistency and sharpness is very very good indeed-- as I would have be expected from you..! :cool_2:

BUT... ( here goes! )

in my opinion- and ...please disregard it as my biased view if you wish... :big_grin:

is that possibly your dissatisfaction with the end look is that you think they look heavy-

I think this is less so because of the yarn/line gauge,

--but more so due to the frequency of the spreaders...-- in 1/700 I think...' less is more '

--even if it does not equate to scale distances

and possibly because you used PE spreader rings --

==> which will always look heavier than home-made circles of very fine wire
( try using stainless steel or tungsten wire 0.04 mm ( ( available from little cars.com ) ) - coloured with an indelible marker pen

( I think David Griffith made his own rings also for his Cumberland model )

link http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html


My reason that you could ignore all my thoughts on this ..is ...
=============================================

that though I made cage aerials back in 1999 on my Dreadnought model - in Lycra ( they were however 1/350 )
to my shame I cannot pretend to have made them in 1/700

Apropos Lycra..

I took the excess tension out of Lycra thread when rigging and for making cage aerials by colouring it FIRST--using Indelible marker pen and wrapping it on small cardboard tubes- ( toilet roll centres) - the marker pen reduced the elasticity by around 75% and made handling much more predictable...
and ten making the aerials


but see below a quick snap from this evening--through the glass case of my old Dreadnought model...
The frequency of spreaders is perhaps- in retrospect- somewhat tooooo minimalistic...(!) ha!

but the overall effect does look " LIGHTER" ...

waddayathink...?

JIM B

Attachment:
aaa1 008.jpg
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:56 am 
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Yours is an outstanding build.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:29 am 
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zs180 wrote:
And as a bonus I was fortunate enough to be able to photograph these ships:
Attachment:
mwsd.jpg

So you can see why I wasn't able to proceed with construction.


i bet i can tell you where you have been on your vacation :D

i can recognise that shoreline in the background between a million - as i call it "home" :D
i'm afraid you had not been able to visit the naval museum in La Spezia couse it's almost all closed for the rebuilding of the roof...but i'm sure portovenere and 5 terre had been a nice visit, too :D

cheers!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:43 pm 
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That's a beautiful build another with great talent.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:38 pm 
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Sean, Greg, Chris, Jim, Dan and Kevin,
thank you for your kind words - they mean a lot to me!

Stefano, I did find the naval museum in La Spezia and found it very interesting.
We have visited Bella Italia on several occasions and always had a great time.

This build has become so protracted that I think many people have lost interest in the meantime.
After all it's just a 1:700 battlecruiser from a resin kit and work started almost two years ago.

Jim thank you for your valuable remarks with which I generally agree and had the same thoughts upon seeing the completed rigging. I'm still considering how I can imporve it, but will complete the cew first.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:28 pm 
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realy a great job :thumbs_up_1: fine detail, :woo_hoo:
exceptional work
cheers
Nicolas

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:52 pm 
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Location: About 50 miles away from the Gulf of Mexico ( traveling W is you do so :)
Now, i'd like to see something done by you in 1/350 scale :cool_1: the rigging is simply spectacular :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:



Jose :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:23 am 
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Hi All,

'Long time, no post'... But I've been here, lurking in the background.

Fabulous work on Tiger... Exceptional. I too struggled with cage aerials... my main issue was getting the tension right without damaging masts and yards (which didn't really solve) and getting the 'lightness' right, which I think I did to a degree... Here is my post from 2010 (if it works!)...

Bill Livingston wrote:
Made another four or five cage aerials but could only use two of them. The frustrating thing is, all were quicker to do than the first one, but, as they were longer, it was much more difficult to get the same tension in each mono line. They also needed to be stretched quite hard in order to take up the correct shape. Because I had opted to mount them as they are in the real ship.. i.e. not directly to the upper yard arm but on a downline attached to the yard, the tension required to get everything in the right place has resulted in the upper yard bending quite dramatically. I have only managed to mount two of the required four... so when I do the other side I can even up the mainmast again... but I will still have to tackle the amount of force on the upper yard arm. There are two lines supporting the yard and If I put a bit of tension on that it will straighten a little... but there is a LOT of force on all the aerials in this model.. so it going to be a bit of a gamble that they will not pull the mast apart eventually.... The lines are considerably stronger than you would think looking at them. Anyway... despite the negative points they look really good and I have got as close to 'in scale' as I can get. Damn difficult to do though!!!

EDIT: Here is a picture of the last of the four cage aerials on the jig... As long as this doesnt collapse when I cut it free thats it... all over. I think the results so far have made me feel it was a worthwhile excercise but it was much harder than I thought to find a method that works and allows you to build something this small, consistently. I think I will avoid cage aerials in the future!!! :Mad_6:

Image
The last of the four...

Image
Three quarter view.

Image
And another... side on...

I still have the downleads from the arrays to do and all of the other side... Hopefully I will get that finished tomorrow... Phew! And this was supposed to be an easy build to get me back into this!!! Great model from Combrig and its lovely to build.... but I think I have made it more of a chore than I should have done... Ah well... I have learnt a lot! :smallsmile:

Bill


I managed to finish it... eventually. You can find the whole thread on here... The cage aerials still look good five years on, but I really should replace that top yard one day... Anyway, here is a picture of the cage aerials complete... I'm still pleased with them... but at 700 scale they are not easy...!

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:35 am 
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Fantastic work George!!! :worship_1: :worship_1: :worship_1:
With a model like this, I won't lose interest quickly... :)

Regarding the cage aireals, IMHO among the three models Bill might have found the best balance between realistic distance between spacers and lightness. But the regularity of the spacers and finesse of work on yours is simply amazing, so I would just leave it as it is.
Many thanks for the step-by-step by the way!

Almost ready to put the two ships in the water together? :)

Cheers,

Marijn


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:05 pm 
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Nicolas, thank you much! I think your work is what's really exceptional.
Jose, I have limited space at home which was the main reason (besides many other causes) why I haven't built anything in 1:350 yet.
That (I mean the space available) might change however in the not-so-far future and then, who knows, I might tackle something bigger...
Bill, when I commenced this buid I have read your thread and stated that yours were the finest cage aerials I have seen in 1:700. I think this statement still holds true...
Marijn, thank you! First I need to provide the ship with a crew then I will put both in the water.
I hope I can show them at Telford.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:27 pm 
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Thank you George... That was a very lovely compliment... and particularly so coming from a modeller who I have always had the highest regard for... ever since I first saw your work on the Airfix 600 scale models from years ago... you, and Jim and one or two others were my inspiration then and you all still are...

I haven't modelled for a long time now, but I still have everything (and far too many models) and one day I will restart... but in the meantime, I will be at Telford this year, I would like to meet you in person... and see your Tiger. She looks wonderful...!

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