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WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=156896	Page 1 of 6

Author:	MartinJQuinn [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:36 am ]
Post subject:	WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
With North Carolina finally finished, onto the next project. With a workshop littered with more hulls than Puget Sound in her heyday, the hardest part was to actually pick the next project. Since our local IPMS club is having a Tin Can group build this year (that was my idea), I figured that would be the best kit to tackle next. I've previously reviewed the Z-17, and had done some work on it, but just none in the last two months. After I first got her, I started by water lining the hull, then painting the hull black, as to make sure those big ass portholes were covered with paint. Attachment: File comment: The hull painted black NJIPMSFeb2014Mtg_008.JPG [ 898.23 KiB \| Viewed 4740 times ] After masking the boot and painting the hull, I painted and then added the aft main deck. Which gave me a little bit of trouble, but it finally snapped into place. I also assembled, puttied and sanded the funnels, then painted the funnel tops aluminum. Attachment: File comment: Funnels are just sitting on the hull May2014Meeting_008.JPG [ 884.69 KiB \| Viewed 4740 times ] And that is how she stayed until last night. I started assembling some of the superstructure components, getting them ready to paint, then dry fitted what I had done together. I also removed the Aztec stairs as I went along. Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_071214_001.JPG [ 326.53 KiB \| Viewed 4740 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_071214_002.JPG [ 207.95 KiB \| Viewed 4740 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_071214_003.JPG [ 265.97 KiB \| Viewed 4740 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_071214_004.JPG [ 287.44 KiB \| Viewed 4740 times ] Attachment: File comment: Can't find a good bow on photo to see if the bridge wings really curve like that. ZvezdaZ17_071214_005.JPG [ 235.26 KiB \| Viewed 4740 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_071214_006.JPG [ 381.95 KiB \| Viewed 4740 times ] The fit is pretty good - so far it doesn't seem like I will need too much filler, if at all. I may have mentioned in the review that this kit cries out for a photo-etch set. I have the Eduard set for the Trumpeter Z-25, but that appears to be custom fit for that kit, so I'm hesitant to use it for this kit. I may just get some generic Kriegsmarine doors, ladders and railings and go from there. More to come...

Author:	GazzaS [ Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
I've been looking forward to what can be done with this kit since it's on my ever growing list of ships I want to build. Fantastic work so far! There's so few pictures available of the German destroyers compared with the capital ships. I find myself scouring Youtube for useful stuff.

Author:	MartinJQuinn [ Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
So I went ahead and ordered some German railings, doors and hatches and inclined ladders from Free Time Hobbies. According to the tracking info, it will probably get here Monday. In the meantime, I started doing some more work on the funnels. The Trumpeter PE funnel grates are narrower and a little longer than the Z-17 funnels, so I wasn't going to use them. Instead, I started making my own out of plastic card. Then, after I got the plastic card onto the funnels and roughed out the openings, I realized I could now use the Trump PE, if I didn't make the openings too wide. So, that is what I did. Attachment: File comment: Opening in the forward funnel roughed out ZvezdaZ17_071914_001.JPG [ 284.19 KiB \| Viewed 4548 times ] Attachment: File comment: The Trumpeter PE funnel caps. The ends are snipped for it to fit on the Zvezda funnel. ZvezdaZ17_071914_002.JPG [ 359.11 KiB \| Viewed 4548 times ] Attachment: File comment: Trump PE on the modified Zvezda funnel ZvezdaZ17_071914_003.JPG [ 278.83 KiB \| Viewed 4548 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_071914_005.JPG [ 284.86 KiB \| Viewed 4548 times ] Attachment: File comment: After funnel opening roughed out ZvezdaZ17_071914_004.JPG [ 352.52 KiB \| Viewed 4548 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_071914_006.JPG [ 268.74 KiB \| Viewed 4548 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_071914_007.JPG [ 289.32 KiB \| Viewed 4548 times ] Attachment: File comment: Z-17 in her new case ZvezdaZ17_071914_008.JPG [ 290.7 KiB \| Viewed 4548 times ] Other than some painting, that is about all I can do while waiting on the photo-etch to arrive. While I wait, I may do some more work on this other tin can that I started... Attachment: DSC_0012.JPG [ 270.79 KiB \| Viewed 4548 times ] Attachment: DSC_0013.JPG [ 302.61 KiB \| Viewed 4548 times ]

Author:	Quincy [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
Nice work Martin! Bob Pink.

Author:	GazzaS [ Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
On the gun mount, I took this screenshot from a youtube video I saw today: I don't think this can be anything but a 12.7cm gun on a German destroyer. It shows for about 2 seconds on the below youtube link at time mark 7:37. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHOu1YHWZ3Q I think we both have the same pinnace on our ships. Maybe you'll find this link useful: http://www.ship-model-today.de/sd126.htm

Author:	MartinJQuinn [ Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
Interesting. It looks like the interior of the shield is dark, while the gun itself it light. Thanks! Photo etch arrived today! Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_072114_001.JPG [ 251.7 KiB \| Viewed 4402 times ]

Author:	NCMac [ Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
So..., question for the day, will two destroyers be more, or less, time consuming than one battleship? Your usual exceptionally clean work thus far. I find destroyers more appealing than battleships anyway so look forward to watching these. Different shipbuilding from approximately the same period is always interesting as well. Great stuff. Regards, Mac

Author:	biggles2 [ Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
How does the fit, surface detail, and accuracy compare with Trumpeter or Dragon 'Z' destroyer kits? At least there are ships of similar class from 3 manufacturers to compare. Would components from a Dragon Z (gun turrets, AA armaments, torpedo tubes, etc.) result in a better model?

Author:	MartinJQuinn [ Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
biggles2 wrote: How does the fit, surface detail, and accuracy compare with Trumpeter or Dragon 'Z' destroyer kits? At least there are ships of similar class from 3 manufacturers to compare. Would components from a Dragon Z (gun turrets, AA armaments, torpedo tubes, etc.) result in a better model? Fit is better than I thought, so far it's not too bad. Surface detail is okay...a little bland. Detail is definitely better on the Dragon kits. I can't really speak to the accuracy - but it certainly looks like a Z class kit. I haven't tried to mix and match parts, so I can't comment on that either.

Author:	Dan K [ Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
Amazing how more free time makes life more enjoyable. Nice.

Author:	GazzaS [ Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
biggles2 wrote: How does the fit, surface detail, and accuracy compare with Trumpeter or Dragon 'Z' destroyer kits? At least there are ships of similar class from 3 manufacturers to compare. Would components from a Dragon Z (gun turrets, AA armaments, torpedo tubes, etc.) result in a better model? The torpedo tubes on the Z-17 have a shielded open position for the operators. On my Z-39 dragon kit, they are fully enclosed and covered by a three windowed cover. Also the Dragon offerings have a wooden deck holding life rafts molded on at the fore end. Looking at published pictures, there'd really be no detail gain. The AA guns from the dragon kit are very detailed. Published pictures from the Zvezda far less so. That being said, the only AA-pieces in common will be the early model twin 37mm and the single 20mm. The Type 36 (Z 17-Z 22) was the last German destroyer equipped with the 12.7cm main gun until the type 36B(mob). One of which is offered by Trumpeter (z-43). The types 36A and 36A(mob) all have 15cm main guns in a different shielded mounting. Unfortunately Dragon doesn't offer a type 34 or 34A which would share the same main armaments as the type 36.

Author:	R.Ricardo [ Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
biggles2 wrote: How does the fit, surface detail, and accuracy compare with Trumpeter or Dragon 'Z' destroyer kits? At least there are ships of similar class from 3 manufacturers to compare. Would components from a Dragon Z (gun turrets, AA armaments, torpedo tubes, etc.) result in a better model? When I purchased my Z-17, I did a comparation among Dragon's Z-39, Trumpeter's Z-30 and Zvezda's Z-17. Comparing the 3 kits with some plans from russian books and considering the three ships are from different class (Z-17 1936, Z-30 1936A and Z-39 1936A (Mob)), my conclusions are - Dragon's Z-39 is the better detailed kit but to me it's stern is too much strait and it has a issue at lower stern area where propeller shafts are instaled. - Trumpeters Z-30 is less well detailed than Dragon's Zerstörers, it's entire hull looks a little bit too large at it's width, but general proportions are better than Dragon's Z-39. There is a issue at stern at rudder area too, but less noticeable than at Dragon's kit. - Seems to me Zvezdas Z-17 has the better hull proportions, near matching plans. It's stern is correct too for a 1936 class, but it's the poorly detailed among the three kits. I observed portholes at hull are too large and it's pattern is very different from we can see at real Z-17 pictures. There are some other minor issues at superstructure too I dont remember now. Kit is not the betther but still correctable and buildable. In a comparation among Trumpeter stern (left) and Dragon (right) we can see how much Dragon's stern is strait. Comparing this view from Trumpeter stern (top) and Dragon (lower) with plans, we can see it's issues: Best Regards, Ricardo

Author:	MartinJQuinn [ Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
NCMac wrote: So..., question for the day, will two destroyers be more, or less, time consuming than one battleship? Your usual exceptionally clean work thus far. I find destroyers more appealing than battleships anyway so look forward to watching these. Different shipbuilding from approximately the same period is always interesting as well. Great stuff. Regards, Mac LOL. Less, I hope!! And thanks for the kind words - much appreciated.

Author:	Apophysis [ Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
Looks great Martin! Keep on the good work! Regards! Dirk

Author:	MartinJQuinn [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
Thanks Dirk! More progress was made over the weekend. I started adding the photo-etch doors from Lion Roar set: Attachment: File comment: Before photo-etch doors ZvezdaZ17_072614_004.JPG [ 272.75 KiB \| Viewed 4095 times ] Attachment: File comment: The aforementioned doors... ZvezdaZ17_072614_005.JPG [ 281.93 KiB \| Viewed 4095 times ] Attachment: File comment: After... ZvezdaZ17_072714_001.JPG [ 244.75 KiB \| Viewed 4095 times ] And then the other side (which I did first, but neglected to take photos of until I was done). Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_072614_001.JPG [ 291.17 KiB \| Viewed 4095 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_072614_002.JPG [ 251.73 KiB \| Viewed 4095 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_072614_003.JPG [ 270.87 KiB \| Viewed 4095 times ] With the doors (mostly) on (realized I forgot two afterwards), I added the piping to the funnel, but first drilled out the tops... Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_072714_002.JPG [ 229.1 KiB \| Viewed 4095 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_072714_003.JPG [ 218.47 KiB \| Viewed 4095 times ] While that dried, I started assembling the main armament: Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_072714_004.JPG [ 264.52 KiB \| Viewed 4095 times ] Attachment: File comment: Not much detail on the gun mounts ZvezdaZ17_072714_005.JPG [ 257.06 KiB \| Viewed 4095 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_072714_006.JPG [ 238.67 KiB \| Viewed 4095 times ] When these were dry, I glued the shields to the bases and the gun barrels to the shields. Just haven't taken any photos yet. Overall, it's a pretty decent model. Goes together without much fuss.

Author:	MartinJQuinn [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
I neglected to mention that I also assembled the torpedo launchers. Here are few more photos I just snapped of where she is at as of tonight: Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_072914_001.JPG [ 232.79 KiB \| Viewed 4094 times ] Attachment: File comment: Main battery armament ZvezdaZ17_072914_002.JPG [ 245.55 KiB \| Viewed 4094 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_072914_003.JPG [ 260.78 KiB \| Viewed 4094 times ] Attachment: File comment: Torpedo launcher ZvezdaZ17_072914_004.JPG [ 272.07 KiB \| Viewed 4094 times ] I'm going to keep working on her until I leave for the IPMS/USA National convention next week, my goal is to finish her for our local IPMS September meeting, which is when our "Tin Can Sailor" group builds are supposed to be done.

Author:	GazzaS [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
Looking good, Martin. I like that the blast bags are molded on. Did you drill the little portholes in the PE hatches?

Author:	MartinJQuinn [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
GazzaS wrote: Did you drill the little portholes in the PE hatches? Thanks. Oh, gosh no. Those were there!

Author:	MartinJQuinn [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
After airbrushing some parts Hellgrau 50, I decided to do something to those huge portholes. Photos show them to be dark, so I decided to paint them with a small brush. Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_080314_001.JPG [ 327.14 KiB \| Viewed 3994 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_080314_002.JPG [ 219.19 KiB \| Viewed 3994 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_080314_003.JPG [ 198.32 KiB \| Viewed 3994 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_080314_004.JPG [ 268.15 KiB \| Viewed 3994 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_080314_005.JPG [ 254.9 KiB \| Viewed 3994 times ] Attachment: ZvezdaZ17_080314_006.JPG [ 331.53 KiB \| Viewed 3994 times ] That may be the last installment before the Nationals. I should probably pay some attention to the other people who live in my house the next two nights before I go!

Author:	drdoom1337 [ Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WIP: 1/350 Zvezda Z-17 Dieter Von Roeder
Look well done cant wait to see it in person! Mine is done too except for the paint and I had a question about that. If I was doing a wartime version, would it still be Dunkelgrau 50 and Hellgrau 51 or is it a different color? I know the eagle crest has to come off the bridge for wartime appearance. Thanks Jon

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