The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Tue May 22, 2018 6:42 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 639 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 32  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 2:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
Posts: 1262
Location: Belgium
Helle everyone,

Time for a new project!

It will be Amagi, as she lied sunk and capsized in Kure after the war. For me it is a perfect symbolic and sad image of the fall of the once mighty Imperial Japan. It will be much less spectacular than the Lexington dio I just completed: very few figures and no real action, just a still-life. But I think it will look good as a model, and present some fun challenges, mostly painting and battle damage.

Image

Image

Image

Image

and on film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEbWz4ulESM

It will be a very different from the Lexington dio I just completed: very few figures, no aircraft, no AA guns. But more battle damage, and a lot of painting fun! And I get to do some groundwork. Should be fun!

Already many thanks to Dan Kaplan and Peppe for their help with the research!

Marijn


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 2:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
Posts: 1262
Location: Belgium
Humble beginnings:

The waterline was marked on the flight deck part:
Image

The flight deck was cut 2mm below this line. According to this, the hull sides and waterline plate were cut and joined. These were then temporarily fixed to the flight deck with a small amount of superglue and a lot of Blue Tack:
Image

Now, this was sanded on a flat surface until I got the correct angle. I was I had a belt sander…
Image

With the island tacked in place, this was enough to figure out the composition:
Image

Image

Image

So, the creative part is finished, now I just have to build it! :)
Luckily I have the Fujimi Unryu kit to work with, which so far looks fabulous.

Cheers!

Marijn


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 2:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:05 am
Posts: 2197
Location: Paris France
HI Marjin

I will be following with pleasure your new project :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
and thank you for sharing it here
cheers
Nicolas

_________________
https://ladiagonaledubosco.blogspot.fr/


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 3:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:01 pm
Posts: 1103
Location: Detroit area
Ohmygoshohmygoshohmygoshohmygosh!

Yeah. This is gonna be cool. :cool_1:

_________________
Sean Nash, ACG (aircraft camo gestapo)

On the ways:
1/200 Trumpeter HMS Nelson
1/700 Tamiya USS Yorktown CV-5

In the stash:
1/35 Italiari PT-109
1/35 Tamiya "Pibber" Patrol Boat
1/350 Trumpeter USS Yorktown CV-10


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 6270
Location: In the hills of North Jersey
Goodwood wrote:
Ohmygoshohmygoshohmygoshohmygosh!

Yeah. This is gonna be cool. :cool_1:


Yeah, what he said!

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:47 pm
Posts: 288
Location: Texas
Wow! A double waterline model! Can't wait to see your creation!


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 12:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:38 am
Posts: 1263
MartinJQuinn wrote:
Goodwood wrote:
Ohmygoshohmygoshohmygoshohmygosh!

Yeah. This is gonna be cool. :cool_1:


Yeah, what he said!


Adding into the above comments! We should sell tickets to this!

_________________
Gabriel
Current Builds:
Fujimi Hiryu 1/350
Trumpeter San Francisco 1/350
Dutch Harbor PBY 1/350

Gallery


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 2:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:55 am
Posts: 320
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Very exciting project that will be as unique as it gets.
It will doubtless be executed perfectly.
Looking forward to seeing it develop.
George Pék


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 3:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:17 am
Posts: 358
Location: Lerici
Van Gils: putting the epic in ship modeling, take 2.

_________________
On the bench: evolution of Royal Italian Navy Ironclads-1/700

-Regia Nave Formidabile


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 10:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:56 am
Posts: 6281
Location: New York City
Cool start.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 11:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:04 am
Posts: 152
Yes that's really cool! A bright idea for a gloomy scenery! I will follow your path, no sweat! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
Posts: 1262
Location: Belgium
Thanks for the interest guys!

tegunn wrote:
Wow! A double waterline model!

:) :) :)

Well, the first job was to reduce it to a single waterline. But not the regular one of course…

For building the missing piece of lower hull, I took the section drawings on page 99 of this book on the Soryu and Unryu classes in Russian (many thanks Peppe!):
Image

I scaled them, and transferred them to plastic sheet. After cutting the excess for the position the ship is in, I could glue them on together with a new waterline plate.
Image

Then I filled in the empty spaces with Magic Sculp epoxy putty, slightly oversized. I again detached the flight deck for this.
Image

And sanded the lower hull down until the correct shape and smooth:
Image

Image

Cheers!

Marijn


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:01 pm
Posts: 1103
Location: Detroit area
Nice lower hull you've bot there, mate! Scratch-building the rudder, props, and shafts, on the other hand, is gonna be a real PITA...good luck with that!

_________________
Sean Nash, ACG (aircraft camo gestapo)

On the ways:
1/200 Trumpeter HMS Nelson
1/700 Tamiya USS Yorktown CV-5

In the stash:
1/35 Italiari PT-109
1/35 Tamiya "Pibber" Patrol Boat
1/350 Trumpeter USS Yorktown CV-10


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
Posts: 1262
Location: Belgium
Goodwood wrote:
Nice lower hull you've bot there, mate! Scratch-building the rudder, props, and shafts, on the other hand, is gonna be a real PITA...good luck with that!


Thanks! I have quite a lot of scratch building behind my belt, so I'm not too afraid of the rudder (one of two rudders will be visible) as it's shape is not very complex. For the shaft supports and props, I still have the Lexington parts to start from and modify (luckily they're also 3-blade props), so I hope it'll be fine too.
But I'll only do all of these towards the end of construction, as they will be too easy to damage while adding details to the upper parts of the hull. The first thing now will be cutting up the flight deck and adding hangar floors.

Cheers!

Marijn


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 9:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:48 am
Posts: 433
Location: La Rochelle, France
Hello Marjin :wave_1:

Funny! I'm currently working on the same diorama!
I'm now on the predesign stage, collecting infos on the ship and landscape.
I'm working from the same kit but with custom designed photo etching.
I wanted to share my findings with you about the small island near the hulk.

First I located it south of the Kure Bay on Google Earth:

Image

A closeup. Some of the island contours have changed but general outline (and dimensions) are the same and can be measured in Google Earth.

Image

Here is the 1945 picture of the end of Amagi. Note sistership Katsuragi moored on an artificial wharf which has disappeared on today's picture:

Image

I rotated the old (left) and actual (right) pictures to compare and I superposed the island contours to match (Amagi's position is figured in green):

Image

Now that I have formerly identified both Amagi's position and neighboring shore contour I've just to return to Google Earth and use the distance button to get correct dimensions of the shore.

On your rough drawing, the shore should be a little modified on the right side as shown of the second and third pictures of your May 25th post.
Sorry for this rivet-counter intermission. Hope this helps.

_Bruno

_________________
A day spent without laughing is a wasted day!


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
Posts: 1262
Location: Belgium
Hello Bruno!

That's very funny indeed!
And very interesting! We will have a lot to discuss, as interpreting photo's is fun but not always easy ... :)
For example: how much of the flight deck camouflage is still visible, or is it all dirt and rust? And what did that camo look like anyway? ... But that's for after the construction phase! :)
It will certainly be fun to see each-other's interpretation develop. :thumbs_up_1:

Custom PE is very interesting, for this project especially for the flight deck and battle damage. I don't have the skills to make my own PE though, but luckily the Lionroar PE for this kit is very good for normal superdetailing, and I'll use the 'traditional' techniques for the rest. :)

For the rough mock-up of the composition, I did exactly the same as you did :) : take the contours from google earth and scale them. Only on the southwestern shore, I made a variation were the slight angle is.
You are correct that the shoreline is mostly the same now as then. But on this photo, I thought I saw the shoreline go inward a bit at that corner:
Image

And I thought I could see this also in this photo:
Image

But now that you made me go back to them, and look and think again, I think you are right, and the shoreline continues more fluidly, with only a slight corner. What I saw on the first photo was a trick of the eye: the light coloured road looking like the shoreline. But the structure to the right of it, under the camouflage netting, must stand on something, so there must be still land.
On the second photo, I think the bombed shore closer to Amagi fooled me in thinking that the island was a bit wider here.
Image
Image

So on the final version, I will change it again. Many thanks for pointing this out to me! :thumbs_up_1:

By the way, with the 'structure', I mean the wooden (?) skeleton structure visible in this pic (1). To the right, another structure (2) is visible:
Image

We can see both structures in other photo's, structure 2 with a full roof:
Image
Image

Structure 2 seems to be the remains of a more regular type of building with walls and roof, but the function of structure 1 is not so clear. I think it served to support camouflage netting to a higher level, as in the first photo of this post, it seems to be covered by netting which leads to Amagi. But I really don't know, so maybe you (or someone else) have a better idea?

Cheers,

Marijn


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
Posts: 1262
Location: Belgium
By the way, even though only a small part of Amagi is visible in it, I think this is a very interesting photo:
Image

Because it shows the special camouflage of Amagi very well. We can see several fake 'houses' on the flight deck, and at least two fake 'roads' leading from the island to the flight deck and continuing on the flight deck. Look also at the road pattern of Katsuragi! :) This makes it clear to me that the light stripes at the rear of the flight deck in photo's like this one must be remains of this strange camouflage:
Image

I have read that these 'roads' were added to the flight deck with sand, but I am not sure if this is true. On the above photo of the capsized ship, it seems to be quite weather-resistant to be loose sand? Maybe it was painted?

Oh, still a lot to figure out... :)

Cheers,

Marijn


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:48 am
Posts: 433
Location: La Rochelle, France
marijn van gils wrote:
By the way, even though only a small part of Amagi is visible in it, I think this is a very interesting photo:
Image


Hello Marjin,

Thank you: you answered yourself to your question about the two ruined wooden structures.
And YES, it's a VERY interesting photo. Look at the picture above (thank you for this, I didn't know it) and focus to Amagi's sister ship Katsuragi on the top.
What first appeared to me to be a temporary wooden wharf on the vertical (bombing) picture is in fact a wide area protected by large (sisal) canvas, a traditional way in WW2 Japan to protect sensitive hardware from intelligence photographs. You may remember both Yamato and Musashi were built in a dock covered by such material.
Katsuragi obviously is moored to a kind of fitting-out pier where sensitive equipment is being installed and must be covered from spy planes.

This has disappeared on modern pictures and I think this was a temporary pier built on a group of pilars.

I guess it had been the same for Amagi: the wooden structures are but the remains of this sisal tent. In Amagi's case the pier below was a solid one which survived until now.
Funny: when I discovered the 1946 picture I took these as a first attempt to build a structure to allow access for scrapping purpose: I was wrong, for sure.

I'm working too with the dedicated Fujimi PE sheet but I need special parts to depict the aft elevator well ruins. I'm designing it from the same area aboard Katsuragi, as well as the lattice structure under aft flight deck, which I find too crude on the plastic kit. Here's Katsuragi:

Image

As for the two shafts I'll use modified ones from Trumpeter's Baltimore heavy cruiser, as I think Amagi's size and powerplant are nearer that of this cruiser than Lexington.

I'd concern too about the flight deck camo.
A capture from the 1946 color film shows what could be very slight remains of the camouflage scheme:

Image

I'm still puzzled and I've to make my opinion as whether painting a very faint and degraded camo or just painting rusted steel.


Again thank you for the pictures.
Welll, seems there will be more exciting exchanges in the coming months (I'll REALLY start my building by the end of July)

Cheers!
Bruno

_________________
A day spent without laughing is a wasted day!


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
Posts: 1262
Location: Belgium
bgire wrote:
Thank you: you answered yourself to your question about the two ruined wooden structures.
And YES, it's a VERY interesting photo. Look at the picture above (thank you for this, I didn't know it) and focus to Amagi's sister ship Katsuragi on the top.
What first appeared to me to be a temporary wooden wharf on the vertical (bombing) picture is in fact a wide area protected by large (sisal) canvas, a traditional way in WW2 Japan to protect sensitive hardware from intelligence photographs. You may remember both Yamato and Musashi were built in a dock covered by such material.
Katsuragi obviously is moored to a kind of fitting-out pier where sensitive equipment is being installed and must be covered from spy planes.

This has disappeared on modern pictures and I think this was a temporary pier built on a group of pilars.

I guess it had been the same for Amagi: the wooden structures are but the remains of this sisal tent. In Amagi's case the pier below was a solid one which survived until now.
Funny: when I discovered the 1946 picture I took these as a first attempt to build a structure to allow access for scrapping purpose: I was wrong, for sure.


Hello Bruno!

I've read that the camouflage nets were not to cover anything below it, but they actually served to camouflage the carriers by disguising their shape. The nets were put so the carriers would look like they are part of the island. Hence the fake 'roads' that go over the nets (strips of cloth attached on top of the nets?) and continue on the flight decks, and the fake houses and trees on the flight decks. On the seaward side of the carriers, small boats were anchored towards which nets were spanned, to break up the shapes of the carriers also on that side. Look at this great photo of Katsuragi:
Image
The lower 'road' looks to me like an actual walkway (wood maybe?), but the center one looks softer to me. Also the one at the stern of Amagi in the picture you discussed looks to be hanging down to much to be anything else than cloth.
Note also the fake houses and even trees on the flight deck of Katsuragi! I'm thinking that this would also be a fantastic diorama in itself!!!

Also Amagi had these nets. Here you can see them spanning from the starboard side to small boats and to the shore:
Image

After the first raid, the small boats are still visible:
Image
But in 1946, I don't see them in any photo anymore.

bgire wrote:
I'm working too with the dedicated Fujimi PE sheet but I need special parts to depict the aft elevator well ruins. I'm designing it from the same area aboard Katsuragi, as well as the lattice structure under aft flight deck, which I find too crude on the plastic kit.


The Lionroar set contains very nice supports gussets for the AA platforms, but also not the lattice structure under the aft flight deck. And with this project, I agree that it is really worthwhile to invest some time in it, because it will be very visible on the capsized ship! :) For this, the elevator wells and hangar walls, I'l have to help myself with generic perforated gussets and beams in PE, brass sheet and plastic sheet. Probably I'll already be working on them by Juli, otherwise I would beg for you to sell me a copy of your PE! :)

bgire wrote:
As for the two shafts I'll use modified ones from Trumpeter's Baltimore heavy cruiser, as I think Amagi's size and powerplant are nearer that of this cruiser than Lexington.


That is probably better indeed. But since the Lex kit is the only other ship kit in my stash (I'm one of the very large modelers with almost no stash at all), I was hoping to get close by reducing the ones from Lexington's in size, but I will have to see how that goes. Anything can be built from scratch if necessary… :)

bgire wrote:
I'd concern too about the flight deck camo.
A capture from the 1946 color film shows what could be very slight remains of the camouflage scheme:

Image

I'm still puzzled and I've to make my opinion as whether painting a very faint and degraded camo or just painting rusted steel.


Very good call on that photo! I didn't notice that before, but I think you are right!
That makes me very happy, as I would like to do her with very faded camouflage, covered under dust and dirt, and a bit of rust.

Kasagi was very rusted steel:
Image
But she was never finished! :)

Katsuragi, which might be a better parallel, shows her faded camo clearly after the war, including the red-white stripes at the stern:
Image
I am thinking all the camo patterns for the Unryu class we see in books or on box-art are maybe based on this one photo?

But Amagi certainly did have camouflage on her flight deck in march '45, as is clearly visible on the front part of her flight deck in this photo:
Image

So I would like to do her with the camo showing, but very faint. It is very hard to se any of it in the 1946 photo's… I don't see the red-white deck markings at all…

To be continued for sure!

Cheers!

Marijn


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 1/700 Amagi diorama
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:48 am
Posts: 433
Location: La Rochelle, France
Thank you again for those pictures, Marjin.
I now understand they were no temporary pier/ platform near Katsuragi: only a very large span of camo netting above water. Mea culpa.
This solves two further points for me: the lack of any pier remains on modern photos and the role of the long clear "road" you mention... kind of access bridge or catwalk maybe.

I agree with your opinion about camouflage and I'll try too an extremely faint and worn camo on Amagi's deck. Speaking of paint, the real challenge for me will be to obtain a very straight thin dirt line at high tide level all around the hulk.

Well... I might move my schedule and have the custom PE done by early July, should you be interested. I'm afraid the PE will have to cover the aft deck supporting structure, the aft elevator well and the large section of missing main deck abaft the island. I mean the side perforated girders, the other part I'll do the traditional way (Evergreen).
Do you have some kind of internal profile as to precisely fix the hangar height?
_Bruno

_________________
A day spent without laughing is a wasted day!


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 639 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 32  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group