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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:01 am 
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Location: Cambridgeshire
Yes, finally starting my Trumpeter HMS Hood with the full Pontos upgrade sets including the extra PE for the funnel... plus the additional Trumpeter funnel fret, and no doubt a host of other things will be added as I go along.... and there will be quite a lot of scratch building too, I would imagine!

First of all, apologies for not adding to the main Hood thread. I realised in the end that this is such a huge endeavour, that several people building Hood, all on the same thread would render the thread almost impossible to read. We are all at different stages, we will all take a different approach to each stage and, well, the kit is so huge and the possibilities almost endless in terms of what can and cant (or should and shouldnt) be done, I thought it better that we broke it up into easier to follow stages, with anyone looking in able to look at each modellers interpretation of what they see or do and how they handle each step.

Because 'each step' is the only way to handle this kit in my opinion.

I am going to break my build up into clearly defined steps. That will allow me to handle things I think I know how to handle, in my way... and 'cheat' and copy one of the other builders if they come up with a solution that's better than mine...( :big_grin: ) and by starting at different points, maybe we can cover quite a bit of the model quicker than if we all started from the same point.

Besides... I actually like the 'building' phase... and this kit is likely to keep me going for the next couple of years or so... and thats fine. Its also why it is important to build something that is actually of great interest. It will sustain us when the going gets a little tougher or when we mess things up... and we will.

Anyway, I spent some considerable time over the past few weeks re-visiting all my Hood references (of which I am fortunate to have many) as well as going over everything I could find on line... I also re-read some of the history's of Hood and the Denmark Strait battle to get more into the spirit of the ship... not that that was particularly needed. Hood has been a bit of a 'thing' for me pretty much all my life, After a schoolfriend painted a picture of Hood sinking when I was at primary school in a class art lesson and I asked him about it... That was 51 years ago, I was 9 years old!

But I digress.

A great part of the last few weeks was looking into detail, both on the HMS Hood Association website and in my references and working out what exactly needed to be worked with and what was needed to bring the kit up to standard.

Quite a lot as it turned out. Far more than you would think. However, when I finally received the Pontosmodel update kit and worked out what was provided, I realised that a large percentage of that projected work was already done. That stands in testament to I am sure, many people, however, I would like to express my sincere thanks to Frank Allen of the Hood Association, EJ Foeth and to Kim of Pontosmodel... because between the three of them and the considerable amount of thought, enterprise and care they have put into the updates, have turned the Trumpeter Hood into something truly special.

It doesn't stop there though... although simply building both 'out of the box' will give us a model of HMS Hood that is pretty awesome... with a bit more work and a little more care, something truly satisfying can be built. My problem is, what would I do afterwards? Probably nothing. And thats fine. It would be worth it.

I suppose my first post really ought to end here, so I can post what I have done so far.

But just to give you where I am at the moment, I have thought long and hard about whether I will build this as a full hull or waterline... I'm tending towards 'waterline' for a number of reasons... and probably at anchor rather than underway, for a number of quite different reasons... But I may still change my mind.

I have also thought long and hard about the hull plating issue and tried a couple of options on reducing it. Both work, but the jury is still out on whether I will proceed or whether I will do nothing in that area.

There is also the issue of the conning tower and its shape... that needs addressing, so again, the way out from that is being deferred, but I'm tempted to scratch built the whole thing and leave the kit parts intact. Thats way I always have a 'fallback' position and can go back to the kit parts of none work to my satisfaction.

So I started with the 'easy' bits. The main armament. Not that they are that easy as it happens. Again I have a fallback in that the Shapeways/Model Monkey turrets look pretty good... but at £130 for the ultra detail versions, its worth messing around with what I can do with the kit parts and some plastic card first. If I mess up, I'll buy them... If they are really nice, I may just buy them anyway (hoping they will be at Telford). But whether I buy them or not, actually cutting plastic and trying some scratch building to enhance what I have was a safe and interesting place to start...

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Last edited by Bill Livingston on Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:41 am 
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This picture shows the 'scalloping' where the corners or edges of the plates meet pretty clearly. Its also obvious that there is a base to the turret that clearly is not part of that hull plating yet still clearly seen between the casemate and the turret proper. There also appears to be a thicker plating on the overhang.

I wanted to try to replicate at least the 'look' of this.

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It seemed to me to be quite simple... cut some plastic card and glue it on. Getting the geometry right was the main challenge, but its not hard if you use a series of circles to get alignment correct. Rather than explain, it's easier to just add a series of pictures of the steps involved...

The inner circle is made from 0.10 sheet and the overhang section was cut from 0.15 sheet. A circle cutter is essential!

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The resultant side view (once the turret scallops have been sanded) is this... Its not perfect, because the scalloping is a little large, but its not bad and a much better look than the turrets as they are straight out of the box. Once all the PE is in place and they are painted and weathered, I think I will have got the look I want...

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The next thing I wanted to change was the commanders position... This is very much thanks to EJ on his wonderful 'On the Slipway' site.

The commanders position viewport is molded as a single piece and the only way to show any depth or 'hollowness' to the windscreen is to fill it in and hope that painting it gives some sense of depth. At 200 scale though, I'm not sure how effective this is... and besides, EJ worked in 350 scale. Surely I could do something similar to him at nearly twice the size?!

It wasn't as easy as I first thought... but it certainly gave me even more pause for thought in appreciation of EJ Foeths' modelling skills (I am sure to come to that awareness many, many times over the next couple of years or so...!)

Anyway, in pictures, this is how I did it...

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I used the original kit part and filed off the 'screen' part, just leaving the centre part... and then glued on strip vertically.

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I then filed the outer edge of the 'screen' at 45 degrees to give the impression of a shield (I had tried several times to get a curved piece of strip so the inner surface was also at 45 degrees, but after several attempts, it was obvious it really wasn't practical nor worthwhile. I am beginning to learn that sometimes things are not worth doing, even if you know you want to!).

The result looks pretty good actually. Here is the original kit part...

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Here is my modified part...

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I am actually pretty pleased with it... here are the two side by side at a normal viewing distance...

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But before you compliment me on this... this was easy. Take a look at EJ Foeth at 350 scale doing exactly the same thing and remember, he is doing it half size.

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Now THAT is modelling!

(I hope you dont mind me posting some of your work EJ... but I wanted to pay you the compliment as your work on Hood is a major inspiration for me to do the ship justice).

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Last edited by Bill Livingston on Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:20 am 
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How could I possibly mind :big_grin: And repost as you wish; I put it on my blog for other people to use.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:23 am 
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Bill,
First of all best wishes with this massive project, I for one will be following along this project and already seems to me you are off to a great start.
Best wishes for continued success.

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1/700 scale rebuild of diorama project 960 square feet.
(Table 1 underway)Feb.2017
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Welcome back to the world of building; :big_grin: :big_grin:

You ahve made a good and exacting start...

I shall be following you closely. ...:wave_1:

regards
JB

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:07 pm 
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A question posed in the manufacturer’s section which I’ll repeat here. On page two of the instructions the deck schematic on the right shows the positioning of the various lockers. Unfortunately there are four rectangles depicted in brown on the paper copy and in grey on the digital copy that are not identified by number. Two of the rectangles are at either side of the breeze way and there are two smaller ones inboard of the bitts. Any idea what they are and what parts are to be used?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:00 pm 
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This is a very nice start. Your modifications look plausible and improved compared with the stock components.

I resisted tinkering but I still found opportunities to improve my Rodney.

These kits are great fun to play around with.

Your starting photos set a high bar. This will be a fun one to keep an eye upon. :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Hey Bill!

Nice to see you posting and building something. Good luck!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Thank you Martin, EJ, Jim et al...

Yes, it has been a while! :big_grin:

Time, business, real life etc has got in the way of modelling over the past few years, but I have been following things on here fairly frequently and when the Hood came along I spent probably a year wondering whether a 200 scale model was sensible... (it probably isnt!)

But then it IS HMS Hood.

And having bought a few of the Pontos update kits over the years, when the Hood detail kits came out shortly afterwards... well, it all seemed to be calling me.

I bought it a few weeks ago and then phoned Jim B... He was surprisingly tolerant of my moment of madness, but I could hear he thought it would yet another one of those things I start and then leave after a few weeks. We will see... :cool_2:

Besides, most of my work from a few years ago has been 'lost' due to Photobucket and their rather heavy handed approach to the changes they wanted to put in place... (had they decided to allow existing hosting to continue and charged for future hosting, they perhaps wouldn't have upset quite so many of their customers who had built their business over the years...).

Anyway... it'll just irritate me if I think about it too much. Its not only modelling stuff... all my angling stuff and blogs have disappeared too!

At least now I will post photos direct to the forum and maybe I will start rebuild some online modelling presence and have some examples of my modelling to show my grandkids in the future.

Great kit... but damn big!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:39 pm 
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Regarding my previous question regarding unidentified parts on page 2 of the Pontos instructions, well, I found the answer. The four parts are 'ventilation trucks' and are provided in the kit rather than by Pontos which is why there are no Pontos reference numbers. Sorry for the bother.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:31 am 
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looking good Bill, good idea on the extra turret detail. didyou see the other thread where there is a cable wrapped around the base of the rear turret. regards Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:46 am 
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europapete wrote:
looking good Bill, good idea on the extra turret detail. didyou see the other thread where there is a cable wrapped around the base of the rear turret. regards Pete


Thanks...

..and yes I did! More detail to add when it comes to doing the deck/barbettes.

This is a seriously slow build... I dont think I realised just how large this kit is and just how much work will be involved - well I did, it just didn't register!

Its easy to say its 'a couple of years', but once one starts, it obvious it actually would take a couple of years, quite easily, even if you were working on it pretty consistently.

To be honest though, its the building I enjoy... and if this means working to this standard, with a model and upgrade kit of this standard for the next three or four years, building what is essentially a collection of little models and sub assemblies that come together at the end, it will be a very enjoyable time.

My issue isnt the complexity or the time required... my issue is where to put the damn thing when its completed!

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Last edited by Bill Livingston on Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:36 pm 
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lol, yuup!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Looking good.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:13 pm 
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Ive been pretty busy lately and haven't had time to work on Hood all that much... but put in a full evening today :thumbs_up_1:

Believe it or not, this is a whole evenings worth. Maybe I'm just slow and out of practice...

At this rate I think this is going to be a while :big_grin:

Here is a step by step of the UP Platform on B Turret...

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I have managed to almost finish the main turrets... probably another two evenings and then priming. Then a long wait until all the other sub assemblies are done.

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This is going to be a while...!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:42 am 
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That looks like an evening well spent; with a good sharp result. :thumbs_up_1:

wack some paint on and homogenise the area,
it will remove the 'plastic' grey and look instantly more pleasing!

cheers

JB

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:44 am 
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Looking good Bill, thank you for sharing your build and keep 'em coming. I am still on the basic hull improvements atm. hope to make some bench time over Christmas. Those turrets are much better for your mods, and will incorporate them into mine also. Regards Pete.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:38 pm 
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Thank you Europete... damn this is a big kit - with almost too much scope for re-modelling and upgrading.

The past week or so has been spent adding details to the turrets and poring over photos trying to make sense of the various fittings.

I started redoing the X-Turret platform and spend most of the last two days building two versions... the Pontos version, which simply doesnt fit (although it looks great!) and a ‘test’ scratch built one, which also looked good, but although it would just about fit, the test showed it wasn’t right. I got the rear deck on the bench and added the after section (with the admirals day cabin etc) to check the rotation of the turret. It was close, but no cigar, even with my scratch built version (the Pontos version wasnt even close...).

Over the past few days this has been bugging me because it simply makes no sense at all. Either the barbettes are slightly too far back (forward, actually, but you know what I mean), or there is something else very wrong here in terms of the other sizes/spaces. I have photos of the X-turret with at least one full square section projecting beyond the rangefinder, with what appears to be two angled plates, one following the cross piece in the platform and butting up against the rest of the turret, angled quite aggressively and running very close to the final support bracket with a further support running across the top of that section onto the turret roof at an angle.

The first picture is a good, clear photo of the platform... and it looks very much like the solution Pontos arrived at, although to get the first end panel plate to end up on the turret rear, as designed, the platform has to sit too far back (the Pontos instructions seem to suggest it should sit on the turret side... which gives you a little less rearward projection, but I dont think thats right at all as far as support bracket layout - not according to the photo anyway).

Attachment:
File comment: This is a clear picture, and I suspect this is the basis of the Pontos solution... the shapes aren't quite right and the attachment points differ, but everything else is close.
X Turret platform 1.jpg
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Then looking through some more photos this evening (and finally giving up on both the scratch built platform and the Pontos one (and there were several attempts at the scratch built one!) I found this photo, which I hadn't looked at before while researching the X-Turret platform...

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This looks pretty interesting. It looks like the rearmost square section of the platform has been removed, as have the two support plates on the rear corner of the turret. Or it could be that the last section is in fact the 'middle' section of the three, the one right under the rangefinder.

What is interesting to me in this photo is there is the possibility that the rear platform section folded back onto the turret roof. There is a multilayered section to the left, on the turret roof that’s appears to be in exactly the right place for this final section to be hinged back 180 degrees. It is far from clear, but there is also what appears to be a line of rivets on the edge of the turret rear, but there is also something that could possibly be a shadow of the hinge allowing the rear section to fold back.

If this is true, then I could use the Pontos platform, cut off the last section and fold the whole assembly back onto the turret roof and remove the supporting plates. This would allow the turret to rotate fully with absolutely no fouling... but is it true? I have no idea.

What is clear though, I think, is there is no additional square section extending beyond the rear of the rangefinder. Also, the support which is really clear, is the inner one, which we know is attached to the turret side (one hole in the plate, not two as in the corner section, and its in completely the wrong place for the angled rear support, so it absolutely isnt that).

If all you looking into Hood concur, I think this is what I am going to do (there are limits to the number of platforms I can make without going totally mad!). I would be interested to hear if EJ or Frank Allen have a better copy of this photo which shows this section more clearly. (Its also good to see yet another photo with the flat section of the splinter shield for the rear XIX 4" HA).

But then there is this photo...

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Which doesnt look like either of the previous 2 because of the shadows and the way the supports appear to be a different shape... They are not, as far as I can tell... they are more likely to show that same section, with various bits foreshortened and with the angles looking very different due to the camera position. I think this photo shows the same layout as photo 1...

Which leaves me with photo 2... which I am hoping is what the platform looked like in 1941... with that last section folded back.

Anyone like to comment? EJ? Frank? Got a higher res. version of that photo?

Anyway... to finish off, I thought I would show you the results of my scratch built platform... I thought the Pontos version was too 'flat' on the top part, the visible bit, so I would have remade it anyway.

It looks ok... but I broke it up, so I wouldn't fall into the temptation of using it... I didnt think it was good enough and although shortening the sections and making them square (using the width of the Pontos platform as a starting point) reduced the length considerably, it was still too close on rotation and once the shelter deck was on and the splinter shields in place, would have fouled (it doesnt look like it would in the photo I have added - but trust me, once everything else was tacked in place, it did!)

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File comment: This shows the platform top itself (well, I had to use my new Chopper for something!) compared to the Pontos platform top
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And finally, my scratch built version of the same thing... which I have now removed from the turret and taken apart...

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And here it is with the turret mounted on the barbette... it is so wrong on so many areas I had to take it apart... the shape of that rear support for example is completely wrong. However, this was really just to see what the platform itself looked like and whether I could get away with it. The rear support shapes could easily be changed had I thought it was a good enough starting point.

But this kit is going to take ages... I want to reduce the number of poor decisions about the build I will come to regret... there will always be some, but I'm just starting, so I had better keep some discipline! :big_grin:

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Anyway... if anyone would like to comment on the second picture and their thoughts on a folded (or removed) rear platform section, I would be delighted to hear what you have to say.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:34 am 
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As someone building a super detailed 1/700 Hood I look very much forward to your build and how you tackle accuracy issues. Hood is a phenomenally good looking warship - it and HMS Tiger being best looking capital ships out there in fact. So doing it in proper scale, a meter+ long boat should be great fun!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:00 am 
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Bill Livingston wrote:
It looks like the rearmost square section of the platform has been removed, as have the two support plates on the rear corner of the turret. Or it could be that the last section is in fact the 'middle' section of the three, the one right under the rangefinder.


I believe you are correct: it does seem that when the platform was partially dismantled that both a part of inner section as well as the last section were removed. The picture showing the bandstand (which was a very late find!) shows that most of the additional rear supports are gone. This would solve everyones platform problems :big_grin: Doesn't mean that the turret could not rotate with the entire structure in place because it could.

Good find :thumbs_up_1:


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