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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Good evening all.

In some ways I feel a little guilty at posting yet another 'Hood' model in construction thread, after all we seem to have so many? but in my defence, it is a truly beautiful ship, it's my all time favourite ship, having built a number of models both kit and scratch built in the past and the Trumpeter 1/200 kit plus Pontos and perhaps a little scratch do I feel warrant the number of build threads currently seen in the 'Work in progress' forum and what harm could one more do...:).

As i'm new to this forum perhaps I should give a little info on my credentials, i am a professional model maker/engineer by trade with some 30 years of experience in this field, most of which working in TV/film productions for which I credited in many well known blockbuster films . Today i would call myself semi-retired although if asked for help on a production that needs my skills, if it interests me and if asked by a person/company I respect I will take on the odd job. Just before Xmas i was approached about building a 20' pirate ship, if the budget is approved i will do this job, it will be fun, it will probably require filming in warmer climes and you get to blow stuff up, how could i possibly turn it down....:) I will add that although I haven't built much naval models of late I do have a long history in making model warships, such models were always my first choice although for the last 10 years i have been much more involved in the 'live steam' locomotive scene of which I am very much still busy making a large Gresley pacific which will make the 'Hood' model a fairly slow build, hopefully not too slow.

Now the model, I plan to build this model in a similar fashion to a ship builders model, it will be highly detailed (more so than the average model of this type) it will not be weathered, it will be clean and crisp to show off the lines of this beautiful ship. I'll place it on a 'slipway' type base, the plan today will be for the deck to remain clean, things can always change but that's the plan so far.

I have made a start, I can't do to much yet as I'm awaiting the Pontos kit which I hope to get from James (sovereign) soon but certain parts I can make a start on, first on the blocks is the hull. I have read as much as possible about the kit, on the Hood Association's view on said kit, what needs changing and what's available from Pontos, which I have to say I'm very impressed with.
So the hull, first job was to remove the moulded degaussing cables, I did this with a curved scalpel blade and fine W&D, took a couple of hours but worth the effort, I'm very much looking forward to replacing it with the Pontos PE. Next job was to take a look at the hull platting which the Hood association had pointed out in their review, to help with this I referred to my trusty old copy of John Robert's 'Anatomy of a ship: Hood' which I have owned for many years, IIRC around 1983, before that I used a library copy which was my first introduction to this wonderful book.
Scaling the armour plate sizes to 1/200 and measuring the model using a digital vernier I got an idea of what needed addressing. the armour belt steps are more or less spot on, as is the taper, the recessed plating is what needs addressing a little. Now I couldn't find the thickness of the hull plates but would assume they are probably around 1" which when scaled down is 0.127mm, when measuring the model things varied fair bit, the closest to scale was around 0.14mm, the furthest around 0.65mm although to be fair some of the recesses are difficult to measure with my equipment due to the curvature of the plates. The fact is though that they need some addressing to get them closer to scale and there are a number of ways in doing this which can be seen in the various build threads. I have chosen to fill in the recesses with paint and in a number of stages, this brings me to the first photo which shows the hull having been masked up to protect the raised plating ready for painting.

Image

And now the first painting stage, for this I have used a 'primer filler' which can fill much larger gaps than normal paint, the next picture is after the first coat.

Image

The final picture for tonight shows the model after 3 coats of primer filler and the tape removed while still tacky, I used Halfords paint which can be re-coated after only 15 mins (in a heated workshop)...

Image

I will now leave the paint to cure for a few days and then using a fine W&D with plenty of water gently sand down the raised plate edges to blend in further reducing the step between the various plates, I will then prime the entire hull in grey primer which will further reduce the step hopefully resulting in a substantial reduction from what it was. Doing it this way is fairly quick and keeps the individual plate details even if they are reduced in definition a little. After that i will tackle the portholes, I have already removed the 'righoles' Hood had 15" and 9" side scuttles which equates to 1.9 and 1.1mm respectively, the model holes measure 1.5 and 1.2mm. Does anyone have an actual drawing of the portholes with dimensions, the book I'm using has a good drawing but no dimensions, I just want to be sure of the glass dimension as I'm not sure if when the book states a porthole size if it's referring to the frame or the glass opening? naturally this has a big effect on the actual opening in the hull.

Thanks for looking in guys, I'll try to keep the updates as often as possible...

regards

Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Excellent start Pete... I will certainly be watching this thread closely and I am sure a lot of us here will learn quite a bit from the way you approach Hood. You will have a structure and a discipline to your work that most of us can gain from for future builds too.

I'm interested in your method regarding the armour belts and getting the plating back into scale.

I started off using tape inside the recessed plates and hoped to build it up a little by reducing the depth with a layer or two and then priming. One layer was fine, it actually looked really good, but getting the second layer in place and still getting a sharp demarcation line was a little more difficult. In the end I pulled it alll off and decided to leave it as it is... as you say, it isnt THAT far off, not like the 350 scale version, but have never really felt all that comfortable with that decision.

I have also (more or less) decided to model Hood as a waterline model, so much of the excessive plating simply gets cut away, so in my case, whatever I decide finally will be less work and far less obvious. My issue is I'm obsessed with neatness and need the thing to look clean and sharp during the construction phase. (Weathering, such as pre-shading is a different thing altogether though and I really enjoy that part of modelling a lot more).

I received five 1500mm x 200mm x 2mm plates yesterday and so I am in the position (when I'm brave enough) to cut the bottom off and go for a full length one piece waterline plate in 2mm styrene.

It also means I can get access to the hawse pipes from the underside when the deck is in place and before the waterline plate is fitted... so I can build up the interior pipes relatively easily (although the bow is very narrow and access, even when coming from the underside, isnt all that easy - although I won't actually know until I cut the bottom off).

My main issue with the armour though is that the edges are very clearly defined in the original ship and I'm slightly concerned about those edges 'softening'... so I will see how yours works out.

I'm really pleased to see another Hood thread though... Its a big project and the more people working on it, the more we will all benefit.

Excellent start :thumbs_up_1:

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Last edited by Bill Livingston on Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:22 pm 
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Hi Bill.. I shall be watching and learning from yours and the other threads too sir..as they say there's many ways to skin a cat...:)
Yes i read your post on the sheets of styrene and cutting the hull down for a waterline model, sounds like a great project... Hood looks so good in water, long and sleek built for speed, she was an impressive ship.

Pete


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:42 am 
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good morning guys

I have got a little more prep work done on the hull and have got to a stage where I'm happy with the recessed plating, it's still a little overscale but this will reduce further as more coats of paint are added.

Here's a picture of the worse part of the hull, well I say worse, in fact the quality of the moulding is very good but on the port bow there is a defect in the cast on the second raised plate from the top of the hull. Considering the size of this part that's not bad, first picture shows a coat of grey primer added. You can see the dimple in the plastic on said raised plating, also there is some dust and a rough edge where some of the filler lifted when removing the tape while still wet. I used close to a full can of filler primer to reduce the recess which makes a very thick layer of paint, removing the tape once dry would have been a little problematic to say the least, especially as i used a cheap tape for this particular job not being worried about and bleed through, surprisingly i didn't get any?

Image

Here's the same area of hull after being filled with squadron green putty, left overnight to cure, sanded down with wet 600 and then 1200 W&D and given another coat of primer. There are still a few rough edges, my fault for doing the work in doors with a bad light source but no big deal as I have a few more sanding/priming stages still to do before topcoat. Next job is to sort out the portholes which brings me to another question? I note that WEM do 1/200 porthole eyebrows, rigols to you and me, has anyone used these and can they say how detailed they are? the pictures that I've seen don't help at all with this. If they are plain I'll go with the scale links 1/192 rigols which look perfect when put against the hull. I have some left over from a project many years ago, alas not enough to do this model..:(

Image

Last picture for today....I must thank James (Sovereign) for his quick service in supplying the Pontos extra fret N0.5 which arrived yesterday morning, I have to say that this has really whetted my appetite for getting the full kit. Other jobs done over the weekend include prepping all of the decks ready for the wooden deck overlay, the only part not yet done is the forward section of the fore-deck as I'll need the Pontos kit to ensure that I only remove what I should here.

Image

more soon chaps and chapesses ..

Pete


Last edited by greenglade on Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:54 am 
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a good start made ;

nothing wrong with another thread-
==> - everyone has info to offer !

:thumbs_up_1: JIM B

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:57 pm 
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Thanks' Jim

After a recount I discovered that I had more than enough rigols for the job, well actually a small confession, I discovered this only after my wife counted them for herself and told me that there was plenty, I guess from now on I should get her to check my supply chain, I wonder if it has anything to do with wasting money?.....:)

As mentioned before, these rigols are left overs from a model from many moons ago, they are from a 'scalelinks' set that included both 1/96 and 1/192 rigols, hand-wheels etc. They look just right for 1/200. I have drilled the holes where Trumpeter put them, most are very close, the smaller sized portholes are a little off but I decided to leave as is, there are a few to add which are missing from the bow. Looks like Trumpeter has used details from an earlier era, the Hood association gives details, i'll follow their guidance once I have found photo's to confirm.
After spending some time cutting the rigols from the etch and cleaning each up I placed a length of 3 mm 3M plastic tape approx halfway across the drilled holes as a guide for the bottom edge for each rigol, I also used a toothpick to keep each above the hole, a second toothpick was used to place a small amount of Zap on the area ready for each edge to be placed via tweezers. I use plastic tape as it's of a type of plastic that superglue can't stick too.

Image

Here we have the same portholes with the tape removed, a couple could do with a little realigning, they stand out now as the parts are still brass and I', in quite close for the picture...I'll see what they look like once in grey, if noticeable it won't take much to move them. the gouges in the hull are from the removal of the degassing cable, I'm not concerned about these as they will be covered with the etch cable.

Image

Lastly a picture of the stern, tomorrow I'll give the rigols a light coat of etch primer followed by normal grey primer once I have gone over again any parts I'm not happy with...

Image

Thanks' for looking in...

Pete


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:17 am 
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A question regarding the bow capstan. In some images, it appears to be painted grey top and bottom with two very contrasting vertical colours. Would they be black and white?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Grizly wrote:
A question regarding the bow capstan. In some images, it appears to be painted grey top and bottom with two very contrasting vertical colours. Would they be black and white?


Hi Grizly

I'm a way of this stage yet but on looking at some other British Battleship photo's I would agree with your assessment....I wonder though if the black/dark colour may be dark recessed areas, perhaps covered in grease or such, they may have started out 'white' and just got dirty in operation. I'm sure that someone here will know the answer..

cheers

Pete


Last edited by greenglade on Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:53 pm 
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I have seen them both black and white and red and white... so you get a rough idea that they are moving and at what speed but more often than not, grey/hull colour. In the case of Hood... I am not at that point so haven't done any research. So cant confirm anything. Perhaps EJ or Frank Allen?

I think I am going to go with Home Fleet Grey and a darker shade, maybe just pure back, in the shadows/recessed portion. I think red/white or black/white is highly unlikely, particularly during wartime

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:06 am 
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Don't know, actually. Seems to be the same colour as the two rollers near the capstan. The colour footage (that shows red where it should be) seems to not show any red on the capstan?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:08 pm 
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I have another question but first let me say that my background is airforce and have spent a lifetime flying and building model aircraft so my nautical knowledge is limited. With respect to the "mid deck barriers" (page 6 of the Pontos instructions), with the boarding step access doors closed the barrier cap runs the length of the structure, however, if modelling the doors open, Pontos does not show what becomes of the cap associated with the doors. They can't remain on the doors as the geometry of the feature would preclude opening the door. Are the caps hinged at the outboard edge and fold up/over? The following is an excerpt from the instructions showing the doors open. I've also included a recent photo of my model - Trumpeter plus Pontos and not much in the way of any other enhancements (remember, I was airforce).
Image
Image


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:20 am 
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That's a good question Grizly...I wonder if there may be an angled section at the hinge end of the cap to allow the doors to open. The AOTS book doesn't help, I did take a closer look at this picture that has been posted before... https://www.flickr.com/photos/36758831@ ... 827006319/ if you zoom in it seems to show a gap between the capping and the support for the shelter deck above, this would certainly help a little, if the capping was also angled back at this point it may be enough for the door to open fully? As I intend to have my 'accommodation' ladders extended I'll also need to look closer into what's what in due course. If I find any more info I'll pass it on although I suspect that you will find the answer much sooner being so more advanced with your build....BTW your model looks superb sir, nice and neat lines....

regards

Pete


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:04 pm 
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A little more work on prepping the hull ready for it's final stage of painting....I changed my decision to leave the portholes as Trumpeter intended and without going too mad relocated a few, added some and filled others. They are not exactly as shown on the Hood association site but much closer and of the correct number each side for 1941. This decision was taken as when I began looking at the rigols for the smaller portholes I couldn't ignore the even spacing that Trumpeter had given for the 6 each side behind the anchors, if I was going to do something about these I may as well make the others closer to the prototype, they are not perfect but best that could be done without filling and re drilling all of them...funny as the write up on the Hood association said they were that bad? Once I had sorted those out I then took a look at the protection bars over the portholes near the anchors and also the 3 handrails one each side. I haven't tried to match the scale as these will be handled a lot before the model is finished and once painted should blend in well enough. I'm not sure if these changed during her career? I hope not as I've just followed the best photo's that I could find. I have barred 3 windows on the starboard side and 2 on the port, the handrail positions are different for each side being under the anchor tackle plates..I'm not sure of the real term but hopefully you guys know what I mean..:)

Here's the stern, starboard side with 17 portholes, the port side has 18....I hope this is correct..I have left the positions as Trumpeter placed as they aren't too bad and added the extra for the other side...

Image

And here's the bow, you will note that the bars are a little heavy but I can live with this, once the model is complete such things will just blend in, IMHO it doesn't look to bad now standing alone..:)

Image

thanks for looking in guys..

Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Evening chaps... while I'm in the process of sorting out a 'Pontos kit' which is now required before I can do much more to the hull I have been looking at what else I can do in the meantime. I have the extra funnel fret so contemplated doing the rear funnel but decided that it would be better to do both at the same time, plus I need to sort out the true shape in my head of the rear funnel's lower cover first. So I have moved on to the conning tower which I know needs some work on it's shape. I have a lot more photos for tonight as they are easier than typing many words. First job was to ascertain the true shape that it should be, for this I have followed the AOTS bible using the 1/150 drawing D1 and re scaling it to 1/200. I did this by drawing a graph around the conning tower base and plotting the correctly sized profile taking into account any step down. First picture shows what I did, I then rested this page on my lamp using it as a 'light box' and traced the shape onto a folded piece of printing paper so that when cut out I had the full profile.

Image

I then placed the template on top of the upper conning tower section, the front and rear shape is more or less spot on, the sides being the area that needs some work. The picture is a little misleading as the template isn't flat due to the fold down the middle, the amount that needs removing is approximately the thickness of the plastic, it would be... lol

Image

When placing the template on the conning tower base things are much closer, much more so than it looks in this picture when the template is held flat. Now this section is stepped in a little from the top but I now have things sorted in my head as to the easiest way to approach this particular job.

Image

I did a quick check on the differences in the two shapes by holding the top section under the base, you can see how the profiles are different, not as much as it looks in the photo but they are different, this leads me to leaving the base section as it is which saves problems with the pontos deck and keeps things neat.

Image

I then marked out what I needed to remove from the top section, the picture shows where I have marked in black pen ready for filing/sanding to shape, I am not going to cut/shut which is another option. There are a number of reasons for this, as mentioned the front/rear profile matches the drawing, I have more control over keeping the shape close to the template and to be honest it's a much easier and neater way of doing things. The mark I'm working too is slightly wider than the drawing, this was a decision I took to keep the window outline and the integrity of the part, it's not really something that would be noticed, the aim here being to get things much better then Trumpeter designed while keeping an eye on the overall job to hand.

Image

Now before I could make a start on re-profiling the tower I needed to cut out the viewing slots and then back-fill the area to be shaped with body filler. Picture shows the slots cut, note that the slots are angled, this I need to retain..

Image

After sanding down the sides I'm left with this, here you can see that the rear slot is untouched and the others get thinner walled towards the front.

Image

I've put the template back on to show how much wider I have left it to get things to fit in to how I wanted to make them, remember the template isn't pushed flat so the picture is giving a force idea of how different to true shape this is, it's pretty close, perhaps 6 inches narrower at the widest part in full size.

Image

I include this picture to show that there is still a step between top and base as there should be, whether I take a little off the base front quarters or not I'll decide later when I can get a better jist of how things are looking.

Image

Just two pictures to go, here I have held the two sections together to show the side profile...

Image

And finally a picture of the parts sitting on the deck...

Image

I will need to put back the rain gutters over the slots once they are finished, I have kept the angled returns as best I can for now, once I have finished the slots I'll double check to see if they are close enough to the prototype...

more soon guys

Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:12 pm 
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That is an excellent bit of modelling.

Thank you.

I will study this sequence carefully, and, if you don't mind, try to replicate it myself. I was worried about how to deal with this particular issue... I like the idea of the minimum amount of intervention in order to achieve the result needed. The conning tower top wasn't the issue for me, I thought I could build a new one, but it seems its not necessary with care. It was the conning tower base which I was most concerned with.

Your work in this area that leads to your conclusion that the base can be more or less left as it is, reduces considerably the work involved here and makes, as you say, a much neater solution... particularly at deck level.

This shows the value of this forum... and the fact we can all help each other. I will need to make the same templates of course, but you have saved me considerable time working out (and trying) several solutions before finding the right approach.

As I said, thank you... much appreciated.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:05 am 
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Thanks' Bill...as I said it's a little wider than scale for two reasons, I didn't want to go right through the plastic wall and I needed to keep a step down to the base section below but it's much, much more pleasing to the eye having regained it's 'egg' shaped profile.

Kind regards

Pete


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:00 pm 
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This looks great! I want one!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:31 am 
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Good day all
I have a small update which is mainly showing what I plan to do next but I also need help to achieve my goal. I have asked the same question in the 'calling' section and will include it here...does anyone have reference on the boiler vents on the shelter deck, under the Admiral's signal platform, they are shown as item '3' in thgis drawing from the AOTS book.

Image

This picture is what I've been up too of late, not a lot to show but it did take some careful cutting and therefor time. I have opened up the area under the 0.5" MG platform's. I have an idea of what to put in here which makes sense to when wearing my 'Engineers' cap, all will be revealed soon, hopefully in my next update. I may revisit the sides that I have angled a little, I did this when looking at the reference photo on the Hood Asso site but now think that these may be upright, ie the angle between side sheet and 0.5 MG floor is 90 degree's instead of inclined, this is yet another thing to look a little closer at.

Image

I took the photo to include the under section that I plan to open up, I'll post a better picture of the area under the MG platforms once completed..

cheers

Pete


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:41 am 
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The most fwd uptake ends up one deck higher, connecting to those two pedestals with those two rangefinders (not the HACS, the more forward ones).

The aft one does not, so I guess it stays low: I think it's the box just behind the tripod leg. I modeled it as a simple intake vertical but I do not have much to go on. Pic from the HOOD website.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:23 am 
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Thanks EJ...as it happens I've just found that very picture on the 'Hood' site....:) yes that makes sense and why it's marked as two separate vents....think I have that sorted in my head for now. Unless something else comes to light I'll do the forward vent as enclosed going up through the admirals platform and do the aft vent at what looks like less than half the distance between decks, I would guess that it has some form of grill over this vent? I may have to use modelers license for that one. I have also found a better picture of the MG platform, I think that I'll stick with the incline as it doesn't look like a 90 degree angle between side sheet and MG platform as I had originally thought.

Kind regards

Pete


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