The Ship Model Forum

A few years ago my parents moved out of their house of many decades and sis and I had to clean it out. I had some of my teen age modeling efforts (early 60's) in various states of disrepair. Some of the one's I was attached to I mailed North. In this bunch was a LSM that I had built, somewhat crudely. My current LSM project is in actuality a rebuild of the remnants of that original hull.

Perhaps some of you have seen this ship over on the Scratch build section as an extension of my APA project. This thread is being shared by myself and Hank Strubb, who I apparently inadvertently lured into the the dark and irreverent naval world of the "Alligator" Navy. Hank acquired the Revell 1:144 LSM model very recently and is going to convert her to one of the interim LSMR's. So his posts on that project may be a substantial portion of what appears here. My emphasis will be piece by piece development of the project build as I accomplished it via 3 D printing.

The ancient hull (pictured) as stripped down before reconstruction. I sawed out the hull shape from 20 thou 2024 T3 Aluminum and bent up the hull sides to form a "U" shape, rounded at the bilges. the Bow and stern was bent in to follow the proper hull contour and the stern and bow lowers were formed from wood blocks and shaped. Surprisingly the hull passed inspection for correct length, beam and height, the scale worked out in reverse engineering to 1:133.


I subsequently Added a well supported thick piece of plexiglass to make the tank deck, the base upon which everything else is constructed.

Cheers: Tom

Hopefully Hank will chime in shortly with his build which is at it's beginning. As my ship has progressed, it's been an exploration of new techniques for me and often a trail littered with failures and revisions. For kit builders one may be blessed with everything being correct, or not. Famously those building the Trump'y Iowa's if they want the hull even close to correct, have probably more work involved than building a whole new hull from scratch. Building on an existing structure, such as kit bashing or a rebuild, has it's challenges. Sometimes, to quote my friend "Les Izzmore"... "Uummm I forget" to paraphrase a well known political figure. Harder to obliterate built on's and replace than just build.

Here I used a composite construction, which I might to might not use again. Carefully measuring the existing hull and tank deck platform I designed and printed superstructure deck sections, beginning aft and worked forward. Section size limited by the printer capabilities. The attractive thing here was being able to design each section with vents, hatches, stanchions etc designed right in. However (important phrase), the edition of life lines seemed like a good idea. It was not as it was a point of frequent printing failure and was a fragile item. Maybe, maybe, perhaps? It might have worked better to have built the superstructure deck in a more traditional manner and design, print and add all the various features. Printing the "Castle Keep" stbd, midships did work well though some sanding and putty work was necessary.

As is typical with NAVSOURCE explorations for information, detailed photos are hindered by the few photos of each ship. The builds of JC McKay are a good reference source for clarification, though not a primary source. He at least had an opportunity to photograph on board a surviving LSM. The many hundreds of photos I took aboard Missouri in her current configuration were very helpful for that project. However (important term) undoubtedly some equipment was moved or modified.

For my next project (probably) is an ARL. I am blessed to have a goodly number of photos from my Dad during the war. A few of those were recently posted on NAVSOURCE. I am happy to have a few 8x10 glossies (remember those) probably taken with a 4x5 press camera of the assembled crew, which shows much detail of the topside and equipment.

In the assembled crew photos, notable are the chiefs in the repair division, by their hash marks were of long service in the pre war Navy and would represent a tremendous resource toward the ship's mission.

Cheers: Tom

As my farmer antecedents from a few generations ago would say "Wah Hail" which came to mind frequently. You put your design to print and, well you can guess. It's like we pilots, why do we have crews? It takes two or more to make a good one... So it goes with printing, at least on the rank amateur level. The idea here is to show what she looks like at the moment and start letting you know all the misadventures getting there.


I began at the stern and here is a section that had issues and was used for experimentation. As it turned out three of the four 20 mm tubs were backless, not apparent from my BOGP. So having already installed them it was necessary to experiment and see how I could trim these very thin walls. Turned out a thin high speed cutoff wheel in a Dremel worked OK.



The following give you some idea of how the pieces progressed from the stern in sections. Had I included the side rub strips on the printed section, life would have been easier. Having these come out was not as easy a sone might guess as thicker isn't always better, especially with regards to decks and supports which sometimes warped or telegraphed the outside surface. Sanding and putty often required.




Some suggestions as to how one develops technique and gets through the unknown from A to at least Q.

Tom

This will be a “dual build” of sorts – A Twin Towers of construction (not to be confused with Twin Peaks over on the Playboy Channel!!); a “double your trouble, double your fun” so to speak; a “two-fer” the price of one!!

OK, so the other day while walking to The Forum... I proposed (well, not in THAT sense of the word!!!) to Tom that we start a combined build log for our similar projects that are in the works – his, a scratch built 1/133 scale LSM that he began years ago, and mine, a kit bash of the 1/144 scale Revell (Germany) LSM kit – turning it into one of the interim LSM/Rs used in the Pacific during WWII. So, after much arm-twisting, mental wrangling over “who said what to whom and where did this occur, etc…..”) as well as lots of fake promises of Bitcoin exchange to sweeten the deal….he agreed. Take that as meaning something like “Fake News” and you’ll catch the drift, right! So, he has fired the opening salvo (so to speak) and I'll add to that as we both progress in our own fashion.

Being that we’re “more than day’s drive in the old Chevy apart” hasn’t stopped us from collaborating on 3D parts design & printing since last fall. Tom’s goal in that effort was to replace a lot of his scratch made parts for his USS ALASKA and USS MISSOURI models with more detailed and accurate versions utilizing 3D technology. My goal was similar in nature for my current USS STODDARD build in that 3D parts would give me also a higher degree of accuracy than would making these by hand. And, we’ve been doing that over the last 9 months or so.

When some of Toms creation of 3D parts for his LSM began to interest me, I looked into finding a 1/144 scale LSM kit which would complement my destroyer once both were completed. I did find one of the later Revell kits on EBay, purchased it (using real money, not the Fake Bitcoin junk!! ) and will slowly begin construction in conjunction with my ongoing STODDARD build. Since both of us have somewhat staked out individual areas of interest in the 3D arena (Tom involving himself with more complex parts design, me with parts research and taking the basic parts design and adding the details, etc.) we seem to work well together (apart) and share a distinct ability at vague satire and wit in our exchanges and posts. I see no reason to NOT include that in this build. After all – we’re having fun, we’re both retired, we're anything BUT PC….so Deal with it!!!

Once big difference between our builds is that my end of it will result in a model of USS LSM/R-194 - one of the first group of "interim" rocket launching LSM's build in the latter part of WWII to provide gunfire support for the ensuing Island Hopping Campaign in the Pacific. My reference points will be J. C. MacKay's build of his USS LSM/RL-198 which was also a kit-bash of the earlier Revell LSM version and I will be using his construction as a guiding outline for my build. One reason I chose #194 was that the MacKay build had a different set of rocket launchers carried aboard and from that respect, our builds will be similar, but not identical. USS LSM/R-194 carried 75 Mk. 36, Mod. 0 Fin Stabilized launchers on her main deck while USS LSM/R-198 (of the later group)carried a similar number of Spin Stabilized rocket launchers Mk. 51, Mod. 0. Both groups of ships also carried 30 deck edge mounted Mk. 30, Mod. 0 launchers in addition to (1) 5"/38 single mount back aft, (2) single 40mm and (3) single 20mm gun mounts for AA defense. Here is a photo of USS LSM/R-194 during her operational career:

I do not plan to go into the history & background of this ship - for those interested it is available on NavSource - no sense in repeating that here.

As Tom mentioned, both of us have been working on 3D design/printing of various parts for these models and are sharing the design files using Drop Box and emails depending on file size. At this point, I accumulated quite a few parts for my build which will replace similar, but less detailed kit parts (in some cases). For my part, I am keeping the actual scratch building aspect of this build to a minimum and relying on our abilities to produce the parts we both will need. A few of the parts in the locker are:

The last photo shows our 3D design/printed stern wench vs the Revell kit part which I'll be replacing. At this point I have begun work on the basic hull of the LSM, removing the molded stern wench, adding the athwartships bulkhead, and prepping for painting of the small after well deck:

This photo is slightly out of date as my well deck is in place with the bulkhead assembled, etc. - I just haven't made a photo of it yet - Naval Censors - you know....confidentiality

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Today I designed and am now printing the main deck hatches - ones with scuttles and others used exclusively on the LSM/R's for passing rockets from below decks to the launching crews:



Once the printing is complete, I'll probably go back to do some evening work on STODDARD.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Boy does info keep dribbling in! So things change, being a scratch project I have no compunction about re doing parts! The LSM's had innies and outies vis-a-vis as to whether the anchor cable ran over or under the deck. For the outies it appears (means no one knows) that the winch may have a wedge shaped base extension as shown on one of JC Mc's builds. So going with the outie I made a base wedge for the winch.



The cable tail is to extend to the inboard side of the unique stern pulley.

Cheers: Tom

An Innie with cable running below the deck


An Outie with cable over the deck.

Photos purloined from NAVSOURCE.

After perusing the above photo I decided to redo the anchor assembly!



Tom

This morning I painted one of the anchor assemblies but will wait to install this when some fine drills (thanks to Hank) arrive to re drill out the stern ladder rungs. Another mysterious fitted item is a gas drum on the port rail, suspended on a inclined rack for quick disposal overboard. After finding some better photos I made the rack taller. Allegedly this had a long release handle, of which I am yet to find details.



Tom

The "castle" was printed as one piece, complete with internal decks. Some bridge detail was added as separate pieces. Not a perfect printing, a bit of sand and putty was required as I probably made the decks too thick and they with drying and shrinkage tended to pull the sides in at the intersection leaving a small crease. But repairable and useable.

Tom

That looks just like it was out of the General Plans, Tom - good job on that!!! My printer had to make an emerg. port call for pierside availability (No, Bon Homme Richard crew NOT invited to help, Thank You!!!!).

Hopefully, I'll have the necessary repairs done tomorrow and be back online a.s.a.p.!

Hank

New and improved product? If you look at one of the above LSM's you will see some stands with three legs from perforated plate and unusual curved shields. These are for 50 BMG's. Also spyable are are a smaller ready box located nearby. Currently printing the new and improved (remember "lower longer and wider") well, you probably don't and it wasn't a female...

Will see how these come out!

Cheers: Tom

A "Natzo" good photo of a first print of these ad hoc 50 cal's added to the superstructure deck of the LSM's. Additional noise makers were probably a sop for crew morale. The Destroyers etc had the 5"38. the 40 mm Bofors and the 20 mm Orlikons. When the below decks crews heard the Orlikons chime in, it was time to brace for impact. It's really desperate to have to open up with the 50 BMG's.

A unique curved shield were added to some of these, perhaps some psychological comfort for the gunner.

Tom

Tom,

The .50 BMG's came out nice! Good work there!!

Well, the pierside availability with the 3D printer turned into a Bonhomme Richard event minus the flames & smoke!!! It appears the LCD Plate has separated from it's ribbon connection and is DIW, DOA, KIA, - a goner!! Whether or not it happened when I raised the plate to clean it or the leaked resin caused the separation, I don't know. Just that I've now got to replace this A.S.A.P.

So, in the meantime I went ahead an painted a couple parts I've recently printed:
12' Open Wherry:

And the Stern Wench And Foundation:


I've got the after wench compartment painted and will probably get the deck painted sometime today. Perhaps even get the wench in place. Don't you find it's hard to keep a wench in one place??

Anyhow, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Very impressive gentlemen! Will be following along and waiting to see how the rocket launchers print.

Also looking forward to the ARL build. The grandfather of my wife's cousins was on ARL-41, the Achilles, during the war. Have toyed with the idea of converting the Lindberg LST to an ARL or taking a balsa LSM hull that I picked up at a hobby shop in Pensacola from a collection and see if I could make it into a LST/ARL. The lines look pretty close.


Dave

D-A-V-E!!!!!

(oh, it was N-O-R-M!!!!) from Cheers!!! Oh well, Dave will do also!

Glad you like what we've started. As for the rocket launchers - I've had success finally with the more complicated Mk. 36 units - however, at the present time my printer is awaiting a replacement part and is thus TAD in the Maintenance Yard. I've printed maybe 50 of them out of which possibly 35 are fully suitable for use. One of the many facets of 3D design/printing and that is that you don't always get 100%. My print sessions for this part are set up for 16 units, so if 10-12 come out ok, I'm basically calling it a success!

I'm sure when Tom reads your post he will comment on his possible ARL project.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Dave:

Summer in Alaska is just too brief and valuable to not impact boat building projects. It may be a while before I get the ARL project underway but what I have been doing with the APA and LSM projects has been a great learning experience and will contribute to the overall chances for success in that endeavor. The ARL type was apparently considered a valuable unit to accompany the invasion fleets, valuable enough that they made a lot of them. USN was know as "the fleet that came to stay". Some beautiful ships were canceled, two Iowa's and four Alaska's for instance, to build a fleet that could stay. You can imagine the wrangling and intra service fights over such things. A hint to the value of the ARL's was the AA battery which included two 40 mm Quads and a decent number of 20 mm's, in comparison to the LST's with just 40 mm twins.

As to current progress, Hank sent me some tiny drill bitts which I was able to re do the stern of the LSM. I printed the drop style rungs and applied them to the LSM stern as well as the new style anchor bracket and assembly. Not painted yet and may be a few days till I get it "A round to it". I also replaced the 50 BMG's along the superstructure deck with the new shielded types and the ready ammo boxes which are considerably smaller than the 20 mm types.

Cheers: Tom

Today I briefly did a couple things - painting the after stern wench compartment:

And ground down the bow area in order to fit a new foc'sle which will be handmade:

Without the a/c in the shop, my worktime there is limited to early morning until things cool down or the a/c is repaired, etc.

I do know that the replacement LCD plate for my Phrozen 3D Printer has been sent; I just don't know when I'll receive it. If FEDEX sends it via ship from Taiwan, does that make it JUNK MAIL???

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

We were going through aircrew customs at Taipei on night and a FEDUP crew was ahead of us. They had left their General Declaration on the plane which is needed for entry. Being wise asses we suggested they have someone FEDEX them one. Your package should get across the Pacific faster than it takes my PO to get something in my box.

_________________
Amen dico tibi, hodie mecum eris in paradiso (Lk 23,43).

Tom - Well, we'll see - no further updates as yet!

Willie - Yes, I think at any given time, sailors get to occupy space on either a converted landing craft or an actual purpose built barracks barge. I had that "honor" in 1969 while decommissioning NEW JERSEY in Bremerton, WA. We were assigned to a barracks barge, but 5 of us from the Enlisted Personnel Office rented a house trailer out of town and stayed there for the 3 months until I was separated from active duty. Thanks for sharing - connections happen all the time!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48