The Ship Model Forum

Back in July, I started on the Skywave 1/700 USS The Sullivans with the Tom's Modelworks US Navy Destroyer P/E set.



The "plan" is to do it in her WWII configuration, or as close as I can get to it, anyway, in a Measure 22 (1945) scheme. The colors are Tamiya AS-26 Light Ghost Grey & Tamiya AS-8 USN Navy Blue.



I have made some progress, and it's a learning experience. This is only the second 1/700 ship I've built. The other one was the USS Fletcher DD992 circa 1990 which I finished back in February 2009.

Here is where I'm at so far. Navy Blue & boot stripe painted:


MK37 Fire Control System:

I've fixed the ladder since this photo was taken.

Foredeck:

Guns are "posed" for the photo.

I've started working on the stern of the ship, and I've cone across a conundrum: did The Sullivans have depth charge storage racks on the stern near the depth charge rollers? I cannot find any good photos from WWII showing this. Also along the same vein, did she have depth charge storage racks amidships for the K-guns? And where would they be?

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Jim

It looks like The Sullivans switched to the MS22 paint scheme when she got her Anti Kamikaze mod in mid 45. I will let Rick Davis chime in with more info as he is the Fletcher Guru, but yes she had the storage racks aft as well as 6 Throwers and storage racks, 3 port and 3 starboard abreast the aft deckhouse.

HTH
Matt

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In the yards right now:
USS Utah AG-16
On Hold
1/350 USS Portland CA-33 1942
1/350 Trumpeter Texas with a twist

Jim,

I'm confused by what timeframe your modeling USS THE SULLIVANS? Up to at least May 1945, USS THE SULLIVANS (DD-537) was painted in Ms 21 camouflage. THE SULLIVANS arrived at MINY on 9 July 1945 for an overhaul and upgrade to the Anti-Kamikaze mod. She departed MINY painted in Ms 22 at that time. Also, THE SULLIVANS had a Mk 4 radar antenna on her Mk 37 director until her July-August 1945 overhaul/refit, when she was upgraded with the Mk 12/22 radars.

To be accurate, you would either need to paint her in Ms 21 with a Mk 4 radar for her appearance from commissioning to June 1945, or modify the model to the Anti-Kamikaze configuration with two quad 40-mm mounts (replacing the forward TT mount and the twin 40-mm waist mounts), single 20-mm guns replaced by six twin 20-mm mounts, retained only one TT mount, and changed the single reload racks with double reload racks for the K-Guns. Or you could model one of the FLETCHER's that had the five twin 40-mm mounts and was repainted to Ms 22 in 1945.

To answer your questions about the depth charge reload racks, yes THE SULLIVANS had them in the standard FLETCHER-class locations.

Attached below are images of THE SULLIVANS as completed in October 1943 (the Mk 49 directors were replaced with Mk 51 directors shortly after this photo), prior to her overhaul on 12 May 1945, and as her overhaul was completed on 30 August 1945.

But, it is your model and you can do what you wish.







Also, review these drawings of how Mk 4 (FD) and Mk 12 antennas were assembled.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I really appreciate it.

Rick, to be honest with you, I'm not sure "when" I want the ship to look, but since I like the Measure 22 look, I guess it's post August 1945; but what do I know! I checked the directions from the P/E set, and according to them, the fire control radar is the MK 4/12 radar with the MK22 radar.

Now I'm confused. Your first photo shows the depth charge rollers on the stern, but no spare racks. Your third phot shows the rollers & the racks. Also, on the model, are those three square boxes supposed to be the K-gun depth charge racks? If the are, I've got to figure out how to hack them off without destroying the hull.

Now, on to the mast radars. If we assume post-August 1945, what type of radar would be on the mast? SC2? What about TBS & BK antennas? My problem is, I can look a the photos, but I don't know what I'm looking at; but I'm learning!

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Jim

Jim,

Look closer on the first image, the drop track 600-lb depth charge reload racks are there, they are not easy to see in that view because of the group of sailors on and around them. Here is a cropped view from a different angle.



The problem you will have in building THE SULLIVANS after her Anti-Kamikaze Mod from the Skywave kit, will be making the structural changes and finding quad 40-mm mounts, etc.

The Skywave FLETCHER class kits are quite old, dating back to the early 1970's or late 1960's, so yes those square blobs are suppose to be reload racks for the 300-lb K-Gun depth charges. You can remove them and replace with better ones from another source. But, in 1/700 scale there are limits to representing every piece of equipment on a model the size of a 1/700 scale destroyer and getting replacements is tricky. 1/700 scale 300-lb depth charges are quite small, and a pain to cut from plastic rod, getting all of them equal length, and then lining them up. One of the 3-D printer vendors may make these in 1/700 scale as one unit. They are readily available in 1/350 scale, I have not looked for them in 1/700 scale. On 1/350 scale destroyers, in many cases I keep the kit reload racks, but encase them in PE versions of the racks (PE doesn't come with depth charges) that is a simple folding item that goes over the normally poor kit depth charges. See the attachment of a 1/700 scale "Generic Destroyer Equipment" PE set, the foldable K-Gun racks are to the right. If you go the route of replacing the poor depictions of the various weapons and equipment on this kit, you may as well find replacements for the kit's very poor Mk 37 director and 5-in/38 mounts.



An easier route if you don't have an absolute desire to model THE SULLIVANS, and want to have a FLETCHER painted in Ms 22, then I suggest picking one of the units that was painted in Ms 22 prior to the Anti-Kamikaze Mod. (The change from Dazzle schemes to either Ms 21 or 22, depending on DesDiv assignments, started to occur in late 1944. But, it was a long drawn out process to change the camo on units in the forward areas.) The Anti-Kamikaze Mod was started in late April-1945, and many destroyers were overhauled or repainted in forward areas before that. An example is USS ERBEN (DD-631), see image attached below.

If you really want to model THE SULLIVANS, then a less nerve-racking way to get a THE SULLIVANS in Anti-Kamikaze Mod, is to buy a Trumpeter 1/700 scale kit of THE SULLIVANS. The Trumpeter kit has its own issues, but is an easier starting point for your project. You could finish the Skywave kit you have to another destroyer, like ERBEN, and then build THE SULLIVANS from a Trumpeter kit.

THE SULLIVANS likely had her earlier SC-2 radar replaced with a newer radar, like SC-4 or 5. But, in reality, the antennas looked the same so no changes, the difference was in the "black boxes" and performance improvements. Putting 1/700 scale TBS and such antennas on a mast in 1/700 scale will be an exercise in driving your self insane.

Ok, so this is going to be more complicated than I though. Yes, that's the exact P/E set that I have. I'm not dead set on doing The Sullivans, actually. This build is more of an experiment is building 1/700 ships, and trying out different things. So, I might just switch to the Erben. Mostly I picked The Sullivans because she's kind of local (she is in Buffalo & I'm in Syracuse), my mother's maiden name is Sullivan (no relation to the Sullivan brothers that I'm aware of), and I liked the Measure 22 paint job & I figured I could replicate it. I'll plod along with this build, and we'll see where it takes us. If I do decide to do another Fletcher-class destroyer, I'll look into the Trumpeter kit. What about the Tamiya kit? Scale-a-ton did an amazing build with it, but I'd rather not spend that kind of money on the 5-Star Model Upgrade kit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0ot-UekGm8&t=827s

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Jim

Change of plans on my build! I will no longer be building it as the USS The Sullivans, but as the USS Erben DD-631. After looking into it further, I determined that building The Sullivans in her 1945 fit was not possible with this kit without major surgery, so Erben it is. Managed to get a little bit more done on her:


The side depth charge holders are a little lacking in detail on the kit, but removing them would have been almost impossible without removing the throwers, so I decided to dress them up a little with the P/E. It's not perfect, but I think it's better. Need to add some more doors to that forward superstructure.

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Jim

Still plugging away at the USS Erben. It’s not very neat, and it’s not really pretty, but it’s getting there. Here is the rear deck house with the 5"/38 main battery & a twin 40mm AA cannon:


Any one have any idea what that “thing” is by the forward gun, besides in the way?

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Jim

Torpedo reload crane. Rick Davies has some great drawings and photos of it here: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8105&start=1840#p812211

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De quoi s'agit-il?

I have made some progress on the USS Erben.

20mm Oerlikons. Forward Superstructure is kind of sloppy. This is harder that it looks!


Stern with rails, depth charge racks, & depth charge storage:


Bow with rails & anchors:


And here is where it all went sideways. Right after I took that photo, the bow rails popped off. I reglued them. They popped off again. I must have fought those rails for over an hour, and at the end of it I had to concede defeat. The rails were just not going to stay on the bow, and I was at risk of this build becoming a complete glue-bomb. So, I took the rails off the rest of the ship; and managed to mangle the Mk37 Fire Control System along the way (twice).



I’m learning a lot on this build. Mostly what not to do. I have built one other 1/700 ship back in 2009, the USS Fletcher DD-992:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

I don’t remember the Fletcher being so difficult.

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Jim