The Ship Model Forum
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/

1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=384091		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  cruiz [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Hello there

First of all, let me introduce myself since this is my first post. I'm a middle-aged modeler who was focused on aircraft but has been attracted to ship modeling since the beginning; I just haven't dared to try it until now.

For several years, I've lurked on this forum, amazed by the craftsmanship and deep knowledge of the authors. Now, it's time for me to share my work and hopefully receive critiques and advice that help me improve.

I have a small stash of ship kits, mainly in 1/350, which is my favorite scale, but for my first build, I chose this 3D-printed model in 1/48 of a Holland submarine; it seems to me that the size and complexity are suitable for a first project and also the scale that I prefer for airplanes.

Regards

Carlos
Author:  cruiz [ Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
These are the parts; I printed them from a model of landshipsmodeling.com; some of the smaller parts are duplicated just in case they get lost or broken.

Image

The chain was the most challenging part to print, and the links got fused together. Still, the chain is flexible enough, but I may try printing it again to get the links separated.

Image

The first improvement I'll make is to apply some texture to the hull; the few pictures of the real Holland show overlapped metal sheets with dings and undulations all over them.

As I said before, this will be my first ship. I'll really appreciate all the critiques and advice you can give me during this build. Maybe I can't apply them to this one, but I will surely take note for future projects.

Thanks for watching

Carlos
Author:  Edoardo81 [ Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Hello and welcome in this crazy forum full of crazy modelers found of everything is on and under the water!
Author:  JIM BAUMANN [ Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
:welcome: to modelwarships.com

as you are an ex-aviation modeller... 1/48 will be a more natural transition
once you have built your Holland in 1/48....

- before you launch into a complex major warship in 1/350...

do try this good quality 1/350 resin kit of a similar Holland type built
for the Austro-Hungarian pre WW1 Navy from WMM

https://www.wmm.at/navy-line/26-smu-5-6-or-12.html

I wish you much pleasure for your first maritime venture.

You will find as much information as you could ever want here
at MW.com ! :wave_1:

I built a German version in 1/350 UB-1
( not as much fun in colours as the KuK Austro-Hungarian version )

see here http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Image
Author:  wefalck [ Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
I will follow this adventure. These early submarines are a really interesting subject and 3D-printing is a good tool to manage with those complex shapes. :thumbs_up_1:
Author:  Devin [ Tue Apr 09, 2024 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Wild. I just purchased the files for this model myself on Sunday. I'll be following along. I'm still in process of printing the sections on my personal 6" printer, as the big printers at work are all being used 24/7 for work stuff.
Author:  wefalck [ Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Talking about Holland-type submarines, here is an interesting animation of the working of the bow-torpedo tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH5roEe8Qj0


There is more to come on this otherwise also very interesting site.
Author:  cruiz [ Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Edoardo81 wrote:
Hello and welcome in this crazy forum full of crazy modelers found of everything is on and under the water!

Thank you, Edoardo.

JIM BAUMANN wrote:
:welcome: to modelwarships.com

as you are an ex-aviation modeller... 1/48 will be a more natural transition
once you have built your Holland in 1/48....

- before you launch into a complex major warship in 1/350...

do try this good quality 1/350 resin kit of a similar Holland type built
for the Austro-Hungarian pre WW1 Navy from WMM

https://www.wmm.at/navy-line/26-smu-5-6-or-12.html

I wish you much pleasure for your first maritime venture.

You will find as much information as you could ever want here
at MW.com ! :wave_1:

I built a German version in 1/350 UB-1
( not as much fun in colours as the KuK Austro-Hungarian version )

see here http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Image

That's a really gorgeous sub and quite an outstanding craftsmanship you display on all your other builds, Jim; thank you.

wefalck wrote:
I will follow this adventure. These early submarines are a really interesting subject and 3D-printing is a good tool to manage with those complex shapes. :thumbs_up_1:

Hello Eberhard, This is an interesting subject indeed; the moment I saw it, I knew I had to build it. Also, the video made me appreciate the engineering of the Holland even more. Thanks for sharing.

Devin wrote:
Wild. I just purchased the files for this model myself on Sunday. I'll be following along. I'm still in process of printing the sections on my personal 6" printer, as the big printers at work are all being used 24/7 for work stuff.

Hello Devin, I'm also looking forward to seeing your build.

I'm sorry for not answering sooner.
Author:  cruiz [ Sun Apr 28, 2024 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Moving on with the sub.

In order to use the option for supports is necessary to provide the fittings that go inside the hull. A pair of nuts surrounded by plastic strips were glued using cyanoacrylate and reinforced with epoxy glue to give more mechanical strength (I'm paranoid of them breaking loose when the hull is closed)

Image

The fit between the hull sections isn't the best; several cycles of scraping and sanding improved this.

Image

Image

Here is the hull glued together; I used Black Cynao because of its slow drying time, which allows me to adjust the alignment.

Image

More work has been done on the rest of the parts. Here are some examples of Black Cyano mixed with acrylic powder being used to fill the divots left when removing the printing supports.

Image

I'm relatively new to 3D printing, so the choices I made for the supports' layout weren't the best.

That's all for now; next, I'll be working on the hull; the idea is to give some texture to make a better rendition of the metal.

Here's a question for the experts: The model has these longitudinal strips along the hull, but in the pictures of the real sub, it appears to me they aren't strips but only the overlapping metal plates; which one is correct?

Thank you for looking; I'll appreciate any critique, advice, or comment that helps me improve.
Author:  wefalck [ Mon Apr 29, 2024 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Without seeing the pictures you are referring to, the question is difficult to respond to.

In principle, in (rivetted) metal hull construction there are four main techniques:

- on and off strakes, meaning that one strake goes directly onto the frame, while the next one overlaps the other one at the edges; a strip of metal of the thickness of the plating is placed onto the frame to build up the necessary thickness there; this was the cheapest and, hence, most common method.

- clinker strakes, like on wooden boats; as above but the strakes only overlap at the lower edge; rarely used, as you would have to place wedge-shaped filler strips onto each frame, difficult to make and expensive.

- flush outside with strake butting against each other; narrow seam-strakes are rivetted to the inside(!) of the hull; less strong than on-and-off strakes, but often used on 'better' ships for visual appearance.

- joggled strakes; like the clinker technique above, but the overlapping edge is pressed down to form a step over the lower strake; no filler strips needed and as strong as on-and-off plating, but very labour intensive and, hence, expensive to make.

As I said, one can only form an oppinion on what technique might have been employed by inspecting the photographs.
Author:  cruiz [ Mon Apr 29, 2024 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Thanks for your response, Eberhard.

Here is an example: on the real one sub, it appears that the upper and lower plates overlap the center one.

Image

They are represented in the model as some kind of reinforcing strips, but I haven't seen something similar on ships before.
Author:  wefalck [ Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Indeed, it looks like the traditional on-and-off plating.

It seems that the creators of the 3D-model did not understand how ships (including submarines) were built ... to correct this. a lot of filling and sanding will be required.
Author:  cruiz [ Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Hello again

A lot of filling and sanding was done to every part of the model, it was a tedious process made with care so as not to damage the details.

Even though most of the hull will be covered later with putty to give it some texture, I tried to get a smooth surface by sanding away the printing layers. The unions are filled with a mix of black cyano and acrylic powder.

Image

To better emulate the overlapping plates along the hull, sections of styrene were glued to extend the ribs fore and aft; these will be blended later with epoxy putty to form a continuous plate above and below the center section.

Image

Image

There are very few references for this subject, so I'll use common sense and imagination to get a better representation; any advice or suggestions you may have about this will be greatly appreciated.

That's all for now. As mentioned before, sanding all those parts was a lot of work, but hopefully, it will pay off later.
Author:  wefalck [ Sun Jun 02, 2024 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
I don't understand, why do you want to put putty onto the surface to give it some 'texture'?

I can understand that you may want to use putty to correct the wrong doubling strips, but texture?
Author:  JIM BAUMANN [ Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Hello Cruiz !

My personal biased opinion.... :wave_1:

' Texture' hmmnnn :scratch:

beware of creating a ' modellers model ' as opposed to something that looks loke the real thing!

example cases ....

1) aircraft models that have pre-shaded panel lines and / overscale protruding rivets...
.... ( this renders the models a " 4-D " model, showing things that are simply not real....

ie ' modellers model ' pretty - but not like the real thing

2) Shipmodels in small scales with over-scale real wood decks with printed planking seams AND butt-joins
where the seams-- if enlarged x 350 or even worse x 700 would be around 2-4 inches in 1:1 scale !

ie ' modellers model ' pretty - but not like the real thing

anyhow with reference to your 1/48 Holland type hull texture


the real thing was constructed of smooth plating- albeit hand ==> 'work-worked'<==

( see large double - clickable image posted below ) an image from the USN collection


Attachment:
0800161.jpg
0800161.jpg [ 754.33 KiB | Viewed 834 times ]


Do not be misled by the 'Holland in the submarine museum in Gosport UK
-that spent much of its life on the sea-bed (!! )--hence has a textured hull through extensive corrosion !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hCTXaQ1guE


here is a videolet-- which contains images of an early USN Holland as built

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hCTXaQ1guE

bearing in mind that your Holland submarine is x 48 smaller than the real thing,

that the texture you have observed and seek would be better -- when reduced by 48-- be effectively flat...
but can and would be represented with a stippled brush with enamel paint, and then homogenising this with subsequent paint coats.....

Putty I think would be (possibly) coarse and harder to control and overscale than paint....

Just my £ 5.25 worth !!

Best wishes
Jim Baumann :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:
Author:  cruiz [ Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
wefalck wrote:
I don't understand, why do you want to put putty onto the surface to give it some 'texture'?

I can understand that you may want to use putty to correct the wrong doubling strips, but texture?


Hi Eberhard, texture may not be the right word. I'm aiming for the wavy surface seen in Jim's picture below.

It's subtle, but I liked the contrast because it is present in the pressure hull but not in the deck, which looks pretty smooth.

JIM BAUMANN wrote:
Hello Cruiz !

My personal biased opinion.... :wave_1:

' Texture' hmmnnn :scratch:

beware of creating a ' modellers model ' as opposed to something that looks loke the real thing!



I didn't know that planking in ship models is the equivalent debate for aircraft panel lines and rivets :-D . In models, I try to find a balance between realism and visual interest. Let's see what happens when I make my first wooden deck :big_grin: .

As you said, the museum piece is corroded and doesn't represent the ship in service; the wavy surface in your picture is what I'm looking for.

Your idea for the stippled paint could work very well. I was planning to use very diluted putty in a similar way, but I have to test what would work before committing to the model.

By the way, both YouTube links are for a movie trailer. Would you mind sharing the title so I can look it up?

Thank you, gents; I really appreciate your opinions.
Author:  cruiz [ Mon Jul 21, 2025 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
A long time has passed since my last update; life and work got in the way, but now I'm ready to move forward with this project.

The bulk of the work has gone to modify the exterior of the hull to resemble better what I saw in the reference pictures; this is my try at emulating the ribs and ondulations, even if it's not what I expected. Hopefully it will add some interest to the model.

Image

Image

Here is the model ready for priming, along with the other parts which are not attached yet to facilitate the painting or prevent damage.

Image

Image

I will take the opportunity to ask for your kind help; the instructions only indicate to paint the upper part white and the rest in black. I would like to include some weathering and wear to the finish. Do you know what material the propeller could be made of? In the pictures, it appears to be painted or made of a dark material; in the same way, what materials are other parts like the cleats, masts, and rings made of?

Thanks in advance for your help

Carlos
Author:  wefalck [ Tue Jul 22, 2025 4:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/48 Holland Submarine 1899
Propellers are usually made of bronze.

Cleats could be also bronze, but on a steel hull may be rather cast or forged steel to avoid localised corrossion. Likewise ring-bolts and such. The mast could be wood to reduce top-weight or steel tubing. Steel parts would be galvanise and painted or left bare.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/