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 Post subject: 1/700 Saratoga CV3 1944
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:13 am
Posts: 247
Location: Lexington, MA
Motivated by an online discussion about the absense of any OTS kit for this I'd thought I'd give it a go. I have both Trumpeter Lex And Sara kits in this scale but to me it's quite apparent that it would be best to start using the Lex kit. Either way it looks like a lot of kit-bashing; my favourite way :smallsmile:

I'm using some drawing I found on the HNSA site and the Classic Warship photobook plus whatever else I can discover online. Philosophically this is a 'tinker' build for me i.e. it's something to randomnly tinker around with whilst I wait for paint to dry on another build or parts to be delivered for something else.

So far we have:

Starboard hull blister and vents
The blister is from two plastic strips top and bottom shaped to the right profile then filled with Elmers wood filler. I didn't like the row of vents as is as they were a) too high up (I believe they base of these should be approximately in line with the recess/alcove/[or insert correct navy term] behind them), b) they weren't deep enough, c) they are just holes and d) if any door were half shut, the top edge would be way thinner. Couldn't find a good way of hacking at the hull so I made my own from styrene; not actually that hard when you commit to it. Rather than adding bits to the hull directly I made a sort of elongated box which could be inserted as a single piece.

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(PS I didn't realise the vents were too high as moulded, until after the insert had been added and beatifully finished flush. Hack, hack, hack. Swear, swear swear. That's why it's a bit scrappy :doh_1: )
(PPS If anyone knows what color the inside of those vent areas is, I would love to know.)

Rear galleries
Much hacking away at the kit part and the gun areas replaced with 5 thou brass sheet. Rather than ad a small strip of styrene for the deck area that extends beyond the original I cut back much futher for strength (my replacement overlaps back over the hull) and because the cabin area that extends beyond the hull is only slightly lower than the gallery deck level; the moulded part is much thicker.

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Flight deck (forward)
Rounded edges trimmed straight and inserts added to get the correct shape, circular cut-outs where required and styrene strip edging that is a fraction lower than the planked area as seen in some photos (rain gutters?). Deck planking restored courtesy of a panel line scriber.

Attachment:
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Recesses/Alcoves (or whatever the correct term is :big_grin: )
Well they are about the right width and height. Er, that's it. So far I've done the rear-most port and starboard.

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(PS As I upload this I know the ladder in one should be up against the wall, can't see myself living with it as is)


Last edited by RichardP on Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:52 pm 
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Great choice for the ole WIP section! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:



Bob Pink. :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:45 pm 
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Wow....great stuff. You are off to an excellent start.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:13 am 
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Wow, great job so far!

Ive been thinking about doing a 1/700 dazzle CV-3, but dont have enough research yet, and didnt know which trumpy kit to get. Ill defiently be watching your build for sure!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:54 am 
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HI Richard
good start for the "big upgrade"!!all in the 1 / 700 :thumbs_up_1:
superb :thumbs_up_1:
best regards
Nicolas

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:53 pm 
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Location: Houston, Texas
Saratoga is one of my favorite ww2 ships.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:53 pm 
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Location: Lexington, MA
More recesses:

The simplest of the bunch
Attachment:
prt-alc-2.jpg
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The next was possibly the most complex extending either side of the hull opening. The kit part was almost irrelevant for this. The bits either side are to give rooms behind the vents either side (assuming that you can actually see through the tiny vent holes - probably not). The brass rod top front is purely structural
Attachment:
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I added a 5thou brass 'facia' to this to get nice thin edging around the cut-out whilst giving a solid construction, it also adds finesse to the vent openings either side.
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Dry assembled
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Attachments:
prt-alc-3b.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:12 am 
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Location: A Scot in New Zealand
looking good :)

How did you cut the 5 though brass in that complex shape and have it all turn out so symmetrical ?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:49 pm 
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Very nice! Those boat pocket interiors are mini-models unto themselves!

Allan McBeath wrote:
How did you cut the 5 though brass in that complex shape and have it all turn out so symmetrical ?


Allan read my mind. I always wondered how guys cut brass sheet/strips this thin without having it curl.

Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:31 pm 
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Location: Lexington, MA
Tidbits for brass that help me a great deal:

1) Have a scale drawing of the shape

2) Use an indelible marker (Sharpie) to cover the area of brass to use and score the outline with a needle, knife tip and most useful, a steel vernier caliper with sharp points. This gives really fine lines to work to that are robust when handling. make a mistake, black over and try again...[I do believe I learnt the art of 'blueing' in metalwork at school...education, education, education :smallsmile: ]

One of my best spent $15 ever:
Attachment:
caliper.jpg
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(The battery has been flat for ages but it's still great to size against a scale drawing and transfer to the brass)

3) Forget tin snips or other scissored devices, use a dremel EZ cut tool instead to slowly grind towards the shape. The brass will bend a bit but it's easy to flatted back. Don't use this to get the final shape. It's actually quite a precise cutter with which I find it possible to scim very shallow cuts with it, so I can get to within 10thou of a marked line.

Best brass working purchase ever:
Attachment:
EZ disc.jpg
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4) Finish with needle files and emery paper, checking against 1) continuously

As well as regular needle files, I also found a couple of watchmaker files (one square one round) that are tiny (about 1.5mm across at their widest) that are amazing for fine details, especially shaping holes (square, oval, elongated) such as vent holes and archways. They were expensive (abour $25 each) and I lost track of where I got them from; very annoying as I broke the tip of the circular on recently - after about 5 years of use, they are quite tough despite their size. Money absolutely well spent.

Here's what they look like compared to regular needle files:

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5) Finish (deburr) using files and fine emery paper (600/1000) across the face of the brass; I find this helps flatten out the brass if it has warped slightly.

Footnotes
For more complex shapes I sometimes start with a datum edge/corner and work each part of the shape at a time rather than try and mark out the whole thing. Once one feature has been shaped successfully, it can be easier to mark the next feature based on what exists rather than a mass of scored lines.
It's also worth having a circle template for marking. Consider drawing in circles/arcs first as a lot of edges will be tangents to these (particular on gun galleries I am finding); filleted corners will be an exception to this.
Always try and hold the brass as close to the cutting edge as possible when the using Dremet cutter, leave too much hanging out and it will be deformed by the cutter - I use a pair of smooth (no grip serrations) flat nose pliers for this. I also make sure that the cutting disc is going down through the brass.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:07 am 
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Thanks for the detail .Ill have to give that some thought. Would never have thought of using my dremmel.

Those small files are cool. Wonder where I could get similar.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:20 pm 
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Location: Lexington, MA
Bow sponsons
This was tricky due to the curves and angles involved. Since parts of Lex's sponsons matched the Sara drawing I stuck on the kit parts and took it from there. The gun decks were made from brass again and these seemd to be the best datum surfaces to work from so they were stuck in place first. A great help here was a strip of plastic card glued across the frontmost sponsons that matched the outside flats of the forward most sponsons and lifted the gun deck to the correct height. Once these decks were fixed it was relatively simple to fill out the correct sponson shapes using styrene and various fillers; plus a bit of trimming to match the straight side edges of Sara's forward flight deck.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:32 am 
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Nicely executed, Richard! :thumbs_up_1:

Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Location: Lexington, MA
Starting to daub paint on....this usually slow things right down as paint always reveals the blemishes and flaws.

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Liking the use of the brass to give thin crisp edges. I've been using permanent marker to colour the brass/plastic joints on the hull walls in the same way as a sacrificial primer coat to check for flatness etc . Much easier and quicker and just as effective (admittedly for small areas only).

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Not liking the painted edges between horizontal and vertical; I'm having to do this by brush in the recesses as it's too tricky to get a nice even spray in there. A trick that works for me at this stage is to coat with Future , repaint one surface so it overlaps the other and then scrape off the excess with a scalpel.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:51 pm 
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Location: Monson, MA.
I am really enjoying following your progress! :cool_2:




Bob Pink. :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:34 pm 
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Location: Lexington, MA
Slipped into a 'faffing' stage as I get to the point where the flight deck should go on but can't seem to find an acceptable approach, what with all the overhangs, recesses and vent doors that would be imposssible to fix from the outside. Must of dry-fitted the deck a hundred times and just stared at it. Eventually I decided to cut the flight deck up (gasp!) so I can work on the bow and stern areas and get them closed off.

Stern section:
The support structure underneath is pure fantasy added to provide a bit of character. A large amount of plastic in these areas was removed such that the flight deck moulding is about 10-15 thou thick giving a decent amount of head room. The original Lex deck cut outs have been filled and grooved and then the same again in the correct areas due to a snafu in reading the plans; the drawing suggests cut-aways which photos show to be flush (possible hinged deck?)

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Dry fit is interesting if not accurate:

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Attachment:
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:36 pm 
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Location: New York City
Truly nice work, and a lot of it. I love this class.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:03 pm 
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Location: Lexington, MA
It's depressing how long something apparently simple can take...Best part of two weeks to add some hull plating. It's just plain printer paper stuck on with superglue; where the hull curves I use narrow strips top /bottom of each plate line and conventional filler between. Once I had the lines to my satisfaction (in other words after several attempts), everything was sanded down to Tamiya masking tape thickness by running a strip of tape either side of the paper and sanding intil the tape begins to scratch (yup, I think paper is too fat). A bonus of plating was that it has given me opportunity to addd fillets to the row of vent openings under the island position.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Location: Lexington, MA
Can't believe it's been 18 months since I last posted on this. Work continues to trickle along though....still only in between other stuff (right now a recently acquired Trumpeters 1/350 QE is getting more favour).

In that time I've been working on the island and stack structures.

The stack makes extensive use of the Lexington parts but hacked up significantly to get the right dimensions.
Attachment:
stack1.jpg
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The raised decks for and aft of the funnel as well as all platforms are from 5 thou brass sheet with 2 thou splinter shields. Those with wind deflectors have been carved from solid styrene to create the curves and the corner intersections with that outward curved profile at the top.
Attachment:
stack2.jpg
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Additional deck housings are from styrene and brass rod for the large rear platform supports. Rails are from 40swg copper wire.
Attachment:
stack3.jpg
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Supports for the large platform are from 2 thous prass sheet cut into triangles and the large ones drilled as well (and then I bought the dedicated PE set...). Access holes have been drilled and filed square at the top of the ladders (generic PE items).
Attachment:
stack4.jpg
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Other platform supports are from brass wire and spare PE cut up appropriately. The underneath of the funnel cap has been hollowed out to thin it and give it a more distinct overhang where vents have been added by cutting out the funnel walls and inserting lengths of 1/350 PE ladder.
Attachment:
stack5.jpg
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The funnel uptakes have been given walls (going down about 3/4") from styrene. The funnel cap has been reshaped and the corners rounded out with styrene inserts.
Attachment:
stack6.jpg
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Painting is getting there but still needs work inplaces.

The island requires just as much work as the upper decks need to be scratch built. Again decks and splinter shields are from brass with the wind deflector from carved styrene.
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island3.jpg
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island2.jpg
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Attachment:
island1.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:21 pm 
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Location: Monson, MA.
Absolutely magnificent work! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
Glad that your back at it.



Bob Pink.


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