The Ship Model Forum

Thank you for your response. I do know about the cannon shot size differences as the deck get higher, and that it is needed to some extent to keep ships from being top heavy. I thought the idea of a steeper tumble home was to allow for the larger sized cannon in addition to the somewhat greater beam. And, looking at hull designs for, say the Victory, compared to the Pennsylvania, (and the other gradual increase 74's) the hull bottom looks somewhat "flatter". I would guess this would spread the ship's weight out over a slightly larger surface? I am not a Nautical engineer, but this would seem to make some sense? The first American 74's did have trouble with the lower ports being to low in the water, but the later 74's were much better. I think, at the time, America knew it could not field fleets of the size the British and French could. And, to compensate, they built their frigates and 74's to handle more, and larger guns. In any case, I found a cut away drawing of the Pennsylvania that is a mimeograph of an original drawing. It was rolled up with a plan of the masts and yards I got with all of the other plans of the 74's I ordered from the Smithsonian. It shows the spar deck beams to be 4 inches smaller than the other gun decks. I have smaller cannon that are of a proper size for 18 pounders, I will have to build carriages to fit them. This is going to set me back some. On a positive note, the same original plan shows full sized gun ports so, 18 pounders will fit. The spar deck bulkheads are also higher than on the other two plans by about 18 inches. I can still use the 32 pounders for my main gun deck cannon when I build either the Ohio or North Carolina, so they will not go to waste. I am already that much farther ahead on that particular ship!

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Here are some photos of the plan I mentioned. I did the best I could given the camera I have to work with. I think you can see that the lettering looks nothing like the Chapelle plans, much to "curly". Along one side it looks like this plan is the opposite side of another page of something. You can see where ink lettering shows up backwards along he right hand edge. The deck heights are laid out clearly, as are the main beams. I show the lower deck layout and labels the rooms. This discussion is lots of fun. I learn alot, and get to see different view points with regard to speculative facts and items. Always assume I know noting when you answer my questions, this way nothing is left out. Thanks!

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I butted all of the masts along the "keel" line of the lowest gun deck. Remember, this is not a plank on frame where I have a definite keel. I did not want to go into the internal detail at this point, as my skill level needs to improve before I tackle something that complex. http://www.ussohio.org/ConstructionPhotos/index.html, this is a link to a build of the USS Ohio. I do not now if you are aware of it, but I built my model very close to this style. I double planked, as opposed to the Ohio model which seems to have only one layer of a thicker planking. I will build my North Carolina along the lines of this model. Perhaps, if my fingers and joints have not stiffened up when I am in my 70's and I get around to building the USS United States, I will do a plank on frame.

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I will have the budget for more books after the Holidays, this is one I will get. I have a question about my gun ports. I have not built in a door sill yet. I am not happy with the half cannon available in hobby shops (I have searched internationally on line as well). The best I can seem to find are the half cannon made by mantua for their Victory model. These are still about 1 mm too small in diameter. So, I am thinking of just closing the ports with half cannon, (like C. Nepean Longridge does on his Victory in THE ANATOMY OF NELSON'S SHIPS). The sill will help me "seat" the doors better, but that is a lot of work for something I will never see. I am not afraid of the work if I can get a consensus that it will look better with the sills weather or not I but the doors in open or closed. Yes, I know this is my model, and I ca do it which ever way I please, but you guys out there with more experience should know which would work and look best. Thanks!

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Sorry for the rambling question. Half Cannon are also known as underdeck cannon and are literally half a cannon with a pin that fits into a hole drilled in a block of wood glued to the gun deck. Yes, I did mean the recessed lip that frames the inside of gun ports that the gun port doors butt against. I was wondering if all of the work involved in framing the ports is needed if the ports are closed? Yes, I am thinking of displaying the model with the doors closed like C Nepean Longridge does on his model of the victory. I hope this makes my request easier to understand and answer. Thanks.

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Hope everyone's holidays are going well. I finished my gun carriages, need to paint and add the tackle hardware. The cap rail is on, have half of the quarter gallery windows framed up. If I don't have to make any more gun tackle blocks, I should have the entire spar deck done in a week or so. Things have slowed down some as I have to carefully consider what I need for the next steps. The channels are probably next, then the chain plates and gun port doors ( I will be installing them closed for the most part). I found some construction tips on this forum for making the gun port hinges. It does not look like it will be as tedious as I thought. The hinges are what has held me up on making the gun port doors. I am a little daunted with the thought of cutting a 175 + strips of brass 3/32X 13/32 of an inch and shaping the hinge pin on each one. I am not looking forward to making the gun port wriggles. Any thoughts on those? I am not sure if I want to cut them from brass, as they would not be "thick" enough? Anyway, thanks for all the comments so far. They have been a big help.

I have been working on the spar deck as you can see. Nothing is glued down yet, need to make some adjustments on the grate, ladder, and galley pipe framing. Still need to build the wheel, some deck lanterns, a small grate, the fore, and main bitts, a sky light, the mizzen mast collar, solder brass framing for over the ladders, and finish the gun carriages (they are about 2/3rds done). I have the fore, main, and mizzen pin rails done, as well as the bulwarks pin rails. Everything will be installed and glued in after the cannon are all rigged.

Re the gunport hinges....

sound like a perfect job for the precision and perfect repeatability of of the Photo-etch process

have you a sketch/drawing of these...?

you could either- if lucky--use something that's already available

or commission someone to make you some PE frets
JIM B

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com

Finally finished the 18's ! I need to make a few more blocks and I will begin rigging the gun tackles. When the cannons are rigged and the remaining deck furniture is built and installed, I am going to make the hinges per Bob's suggestion (out of card stock), build and install the gun ports, and then the chain plates. I will finally finish up the windows and then work on the stern carving.

Soooo....

How are those gunport hinges coming along....?


Is the model making good progress?-long time no hear!

Intrigued--and interested!


Jim Baumann

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com

Been a while, have had some family issue out of state the past couple of months. Here are some photos to show I am still plugging away at it. Any suggestions on how to "coil" the tackle rope and glue it to the deck? Super glue is too shinny and discolors the tan thread. I know it will involve wrapping around a dowel or piece of rod, but keeping it "together", in other words coiled, eludes me. I know what I want to do for the hinges, it is going to take along time. Photos of the Constitution show that the space between the gun port wriggles (spelling?) and the top of the gun port are covered in what looks like treated canvas? I am assuming the canvas "cover" is further rain water run off protection? This would effectively hide all but the very bottom of the hinges. I will see if I will add the extra "protection" to the hinges after I have done a few complete gun port covers. If I am not happy with the hinge appearance, I will use the cover.

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This thread is from model expo. It is more pliant than it looks. Have the whole day off tomorrow, I will try your recommendation and let you know how it turns out. I am going to put on some more of the gun port door as well. If time allows, I will cut and glue down a few pairs of hinges as well. Thanks for the suggestion!

I meant to reply earlier..

Mr Carr gives you a very good method- albeit labour intensive...

when I built wooden sailing vessels I have always made them on a pencil or similar dowel. wrapped around , coated with white glue( Elmers in the USA ) and rolled off the dowel before the glue set; that way I could form the coil to desired shape.

I attached to deck using slightly tacky matt varnish.

I enclose a link to the two wooden vessels of mine here at MW.com

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html




and couple of pics ( poor scanned 35 mm images ) of some coils of mine.

I hope to shoot s better pic tomorrow by way of illustration of the above.


kind regards
Jim Baumann

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com

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