The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:14 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 226 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 558
Location: Cambridgeshire
I bought this kit some time ago when it first came out, so it looks clean and crisp (and even! :smallsmile: ).

I have been looking up references and photo's and obviously have a copy of Raven and Roberts British Battleships of World War Two. Any other references or photo's anyone can point me to would be most appreciated. I am aware of the PM Profile but dont have it and as one of the many unemployed (after twenty odd years at the same company... but dont get me started! :-)) I am not really in the position to buy a copy unless anyone suggests it is a 'must have' for this project. Obviously there are other builds of this model on the web and on this forum... Plus Jim's build review which I have read several times and will no doubt read many more times before this project is completed!

Starting point was drilling out all the portholes (and then finding a few more once I had looked at some drawings and check the actual casting under a magnifier!). Anyway... here she is on a nicely tidied workbench. I hope this is challenging as a model, not due to my clumsiness... I had enough disasters with Tiger!

Anyway, obviously any hints or tips would be appreciated and especially the order to do things... Seems that is one of my overwhelming problems... bad planning and build breakdown... I found myself repeating things over and over during the modelling of HMS Tiger, when, with a bit of thought, I could have done similar things at the same time and saved myself a considerable amount of effort and time!

Image

Bill :thumbs_up_1:

_________________
Image
Bill Livingston
Cambridge


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 3440
Location: Nr Southampton England
Ha!!

you really are back in the saddle!!

Sooooo...

First thing: ....

decide how you wish to display her.--

......then get the base made in readiness for installation.( so as to save you from handling the model)

WEM castings have been known to warp--ensure that you can screw the ship either:

down thru the barbettes-

-or

if the base is very thin ( ie I use stainless steel plates)

UP into the barbettes.

I use selftapping screws into pre-drilled holes.

By way of inspiration:

I offer you:

An Chu's magnificent build

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

and my earlier effort.

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... enown.html

Good luck--and I am keen to see your progress

JIM Baumann :thumbs_up_1:

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:41 am
Posts: 1712
Location: Oologah, OK.
Good choice Bill! :thumbs_up_1: I will be watching your build with interest. :wave_1:


Bob Pink.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 4325
Location: In the hills of North Jersey
No rest for the weary, eh? Look forward to seeing your progress - while I have this kit in the stash, I won't be joining you on this build, too much stuff already 1/2 done that I need to finish before starting any new kits!!

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:42 am
Posts: 654
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands UK
Hi Bill :wave_1:
I see you beat me too it on this one :big_grin:
With the arrival of the plastic kit on the market i decided it was time to build her.
JB has a magnificent model of this ship in his collection and i'm sure he'll willingly give you inspiration on your own build.
Me i'll just come along for the ride as i have plenty on my plate as it is :thumbs_up_1:


Roy

_________________
IPMS Fine Waterline special interest group www.finewaterline.com


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:17 am
Posts: 715
Location: Dinslaken, Germany
Good choice, Bill!

I can't wait to see you do your magic!

Cheers,
Guido

_________________
AKA "Tailor"
VMF'06 - German Gamblers
Veritable Modelling Friends 2006, Germany

Never wear your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and truth. - H. IBSEN

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk8zhb1sc4Pe3BRLqq3d-SQ


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:23 am
Posts: 891
Location: Northern Virginia
Jim Baumann made this remark at the end of his "build diary" for this model and I think it a great idea:

Quote:
I am tempted to someday build her again in either immediate pre-war or a late-war configuration in a more plain colour scheme, as I feel that much of the elegant lines and detail of the original ship and of this model kit are lost and disguised by, and within, the multicoloured paintwork. I suppose this must bear witness to the efficiency and purpose of the camouflage!!


Have you decided how you will paint her, etc...?

In any event, I look forward to monitoring your progress (your HMS Tiger build is excellent).

Best,

Jack Ray


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 558
Location: Cambridgeshire
Well, started on Renown. Got all the portholes drilled out. The closer you inspect the castings the more you realise how complex the shapes are.. the problem is, there are a few inaccuracies and simplifications and some of the parts are very slightly distorted. The decision is what to fix and what to leave... never an easy one.

The main superstructure was twisted slightly but more worrying was it was not very square even when the twist was removed. Its strange, but putting it on the hull and looking at it, it just didnt look right. Even though it was only very slightly off, I decided to do something about it.

I have a very heavy thick sheet of glass I use for cutting and as a flat surface for sanding, measuring etc. It was obvious there was a slight tilt to starboard and the deck level seemed thinner near the superstructure tower and then get deeper as you moved aft. The only way to cure this was to sand it square in front elevation and then try to even the deck thickness by adding a bit of plastic to the underside and sanding it to shape too. I decided to use one piece of plasticard and try to correct both problems at once.

Image
40 thou sheet glued to base of main superstructure. I had two of these parts as the original had a chunk missing and WEM kindly sent me some spares... this was years ago, thankfully I kept everything just in case I had a major disaster. I had an easy enough repair to do on the other part if needed.

Sanding soft resin or plastic flat and square is really difficult... you can practice all you like, lots of figure of eight movements on a hard flat sanding surface probably works best but it is easy to overdo it as you really cant get even pressure with your hand... most force tends to be below your thumb and it easy to make something even worse or overcorrect. What I do is mark the surface being sanded with a marker and then check regularly (about every two or three swipes) that I am putting pressure on the right place.

Image
marker pen on undersurface prior to sanding... you need to do this several times obviously, especially when you are getting close to finishing.

I started by correcting the tilt to starboard by sanding the port side. You can see I was putting pressure in the right area and fairly evenly by looking at the marker pen squiggles...

Image
Obviously you keep checking it on the glass surface to make sure you are going in the right direction and then redoing the marking before sanding again. Eventually you will end up with something pretty square.

I then tackled the fore and aft error the same way...

Image
As you can see, again, fairly even and I can see I was sanding the right place.

Image
Having checked everything was a square as I could get it (its not perfect because the two sides of the casting are not parallel either, but its only a slight problem and wont be noticed on the finished model and virtually impossible to correct anyway as there are several overhangs and contours which prevent an easy job), I cut off the excess and sanded it to shape.


Oddly enough, when I put the corrected part in place on the hull the difference was incredible! It looked like almost nothing had changed on the part itself as there was so little correction needed, but getting it right and the whole superstructure seemed somehow more solid and menacing. Glad I took the trouble to do it.

I then drilled out any extra portholes I needed following the Raven/Roberts drawings and then spend ages dry assembling the bridge structure and working out where things should go, how crew moved about and whether I could add detail like stairs and whether it was possible... Obviously there are some inevitable simplifications and trying to add detail on simplified parts can be an issue. You have to decide whether you can live with no obvious means of getting to a deck level and at the same time work out if you can actually fit internal stairs... and if you could see them on the finished model anyway! The more I looked, the more I realised the WEM masters had been thought through pretty well and decided most would be left as it is. There are numerous doors to be added and so on, and I will do them tomorrow.. plus a few braces and piping. Again its a matter of what will be visible and whether adding detail will actually be a benefit. Sometimes it just isnt... although that seems hard to justify... its hard to keep things in scale at 700 and very easy to clutter the model. Of course I cut away the openings for the Admirals Bridge and Compass platform stairs and then realised the part below was solid and I would need to drill and hollow out in order to fit stairs in anyway. I may just have a short aperture and cut the stairs in half so you see the tops disappearing into the ship. Most of the time that looks good enough if its going into a solid part.

Apart from that I cut away flash from all the parts and sanded or scraped most of the flat surfaces to sharpen things up a bit. Again, it is surprising how much difference that makes. Took ages to do though. I then finished by cutting away the windows on the front of the bridge with my razor saw.

Image
I will fit in some ladder stock to replicate the window frames and then fill and sand them flush.

The Admirals shelter and chart house on the Admirals bridge level should have windows all round. An Chu seems to have cut his off and used ladder stock and a new plasticard roof on his model... Jim B seems to have used decal film. Not sure which way I will go with this. Probably decal film as there are a number of slots and windows all over the bridge superstructure and they may as well look consistent... although these particular windows are very large and conspicuous... see how I feel tomorrow.

So... nothing particularly exciting to see, but at least I am making a start and I havent broken anything yet... which is a GOOD start! :-)

Bill

_________________
Image
Bill Livingston
Cambridge


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:41 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:12 pm
Posts: 1102
Location: campbell river.b.c canada
a very ingenius metod of monitoring how much to sand off,with all the attension to detail this will be a supurb build :thumbs_up_1:


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:19 am
Posts: 122
Location: Central Japan
Really nice interesting build Bill. I've just got the Pit Road Renown, so I'm going to watch this with interest while I finish off my current projects! Lovely job so far!


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:31 pm
Posts: 1091
I'd make the list of complements, but I'd feel bad about myself. Great work, and I can't wait for the finished model!! Oh, and Jim, I you say "my earlier effort" like you did bad.

_________________
Current builds:
Hobby Boss 1/700 Type VIIC U-Boat for my AH

Planned builds:
3 more 1/700 AH submarines


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 558
Location: Cambridgeshire
Thanks for your comments everyone :thumbs_up_1:

Not done too much this weekend... traumatic time with my girlfriend... as I write, I have a girl friend talking to my girlfriend on the phone... trying to sort her out... Deperately worried about what they are talking about... they have been talking for over an hour!

Anyway, progress today...

Mostly trying to detail the main superstructure tower. The drawings and the kit seem to be slightly at odds with each other so decided to use a few photo's as my main reference. I know I am not right, but what I ended up with is reasonably close and will have to do. I have given up with the internal stairs completely... they would hardly be visible anyway.

The first thing I did after tidying up the parts was to cut out the window in the conning tower and replace it with ladder stock. There are too many windows and they are not square enough... but far better than a moulded window and paint.

Image
Once fitted I painted around with Mr Surfacer 1000 and left it overnight to dry prior to sanding..

After sanding the whole thing flush and the polishing it I am pretty pleased with the result. Very little filler in evidence too which is good... meant my original cut was reasonable. I then dry fitted it to the top of the superstructure to see how it looked...
Image

I then added all the doors I could following a combination of photo's and the plans from Raven/Roberts... including the double loading doors. I also have some very fine stainless mesh I bought when I was in Japan last and I used that for the vent and used some cut up railing for the section supports. Looks pretty good... you can see it just forward of where the first funnel will fit. Took a long time to do but I think it will be worth it...
Image

Thats all for now... I suppose I had better ring my girl friend and see if I still have a girlfriend!!! :thumbs_up_1:

_________________
Image
Bill Livingston
Cambridge


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 8307
Location: Calgary, AB/Surrey, B.C., Canada
Bill Livingston wrote:
Deperately worried about wht they are talking about... they have been talking for over an hour!


Probably shoes. :heh:


Seriously though, hope it goes well!

_________________
Yo dawg, I heard you like PE, so I put some PE in your PE so you can use PE on your PE.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 558
Location: Cambridgeshire
LOL!!!!

Hope so... probably getting dropped in it... Never a good idea to let two women talk... :-)

_________________
Image
Bill Livingston
Cambridge


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 4325
Location: In the hills of North Jersey
Nice progress Bill - looking forward to more. Like how you corrected the superstructure. I would have just moved onto a different project!

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 558
Location: Cambridgeshire
MartinJQuinn wrote:
Nice progress Bill - looking forward to more. Like how you corrected the superstructure. I would have just moved onto a different project!



Hehe.... normally I would have moved onto a different project too... but, just as I am learning about the woman in my life... if you think it will be worthwhile, you have to be patient and recognise that more often than not, the effort is more than rewarded... :thumbs_up_1: :big_grin:

The resin seems to be much more warped than I first thought... probably the nature of the compound itself... If you look, very few edges are parallel and there are twists all over. All of it is very slight and possibly most people will forgive it... I probably should... correcting minor faults and not getting on to actually painting and building the thing is just another form of procrastination probably... but one you feel you can justify. I think I really should get on tomorrow and airbrush the deck, hull and main components. There will be a lot of masking to be done after that, which I hate only slightly less than rigging... and then I have to work out how I am going to mask the camouflage... freehand painting seems to give the best 'edges' and shape and flow to the camouflage, but I love the thinness and even tones of airbrushed paint... especially in this scale. Going to be something to ponder... amybe a combination of the two with very thinned hand brushed edges and then a wipe with thinners afterward to blend it all together... who knows... but it will be fun learning? :-).

If anyone has suggestions for airbrushing a complex irregular camouflage I would love to her them... especially if you have examples and maybe a blow by blow account... :thumbs_up_1:

This is a copy of Jim's version... Looks good... as you can see, the camouflage is pretty complex (but handbrushed... maybe I should just trust handbrushing isnt as crude as I think it is... its just that MY handbrushing is crude!... LOL!).

Image

Bill

_________________
Image
Bill Livingston
Cambridge


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 3440
Location: Nr Southampton England
Just catching up with your build here Bill....


Nice pictographic explanation of the sanding technique--really very good!

Apropos bridge windows...

No decal film on mine either... :big_grin:

>>>> .... the windows I carved out and replaced with some ladder-stock for a crisper look........<<<


Image


You did a very neat job on yours!! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:


JIM B :wave_1:

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:19 am
Posts: 122
Location: Central Japan
Bill, I've heard of some people using Blu-Tac as a mask for complex shapes before... Do you think it would work at this scale?


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 558
Location: Cambridgeshire
JIM BAUMANN wrote:
Just catching up with your build here Bill....
Apropos bridge windows...No decal film on mine either... :big_grin:

>>>> .... the windows I carved out and replaced with some ladder-stock for a crisper look........<<<


I know Jim... I stole the idea from you...! In fact, I think I am probably going to steal quite a few of your ideas from your build on this one... :thumbs_up_1:

I was referring to the Admirals shelter and charthouse... which is to the rear of that same platform, immediately under the HACS tower... In An Chu's build of Renown it looks like he cut these away too... I thought you used decal film there, but may be wrong. I will certainly use decal film for the various narrow slits in the forward superstructure though...

Blackbrazen... I had thought of BluTak as a mask... and I have some masking compound too. I have used both and not been terribly proficient with either. Very small areas to mask too so I think it would be difficult in 700 scale. I will think further on this... I have seen sheets of decal film that is similar to cling film that can be printed on and then cut... in fact, in aircraft modelling similar masks can be bought ready made for complex masking... they work pretty well although they are designed for specific kits... Canopy masking frames are very common now... so I was thinking of a variation of that sort of thing... but maybe I will try and hand paint for a change, after I have airbrushed the base colour,

Thanks for your comments both... Not done anything this evening... seem to be back on line with my girlfriend again... so good news there anyway. :big_grin:

_________________
Image
Bill Livingston
Cambridge


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 558
Location: Cambridgeshire
Got on with quite a lot of the 'fiddly stuff' today. Decided I would cut open the chart house/admirals shelter and do something about the windows... I also added some extra doors and ladders etc to the main hull and changed the three doors either side of the superstructure front to the correct pattern when I found some in a Queen Elizabeth BB PE set I had... I was going to straighten the portholes on the superstructure then remembered they would be covered by the rafts anyway... :cool_2:

Anyway... Some updated pictures...

Image
Taking my razor saw to the top of the Admirals shelter...

Image
Top removed. Beginning to regret this!

Image
Seriously regretting this now. Ladder stock or rails didnt really give me the right spacing. So I modified some two bar railing and REALLY wished I hadnt started this!

Image
Hmm... maybe it will work out...

Image
Yes!! :-) Took a while... but I am pleased with the result. Not sure I would do it again though... (The UK 1 penny is exactly the same size as a US 1 cent).

Image
This really is a nice kit... I ought to start painting and gluing soon... :big_grin:

Phew... !

Bill

_________________
Image
Bill Livingston
Cambridge


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 226 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: firemagi, Koppalakki, LE BOSCO, lvsquarerigger, Major Rich, steve55, tko24 and 34 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group