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 Post subject: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:50 pm 
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Hi everybody,

It's a new year and time to start a new model. So, I thought I'd share my attempt to build this lovely lady. Building time is minimal right now so this is going to be a fairly slow build.

I've applied putty to the dimples in the lower hull and plan to sand them down next week.
Image

My personal preference is to have open portholes. It took a while to drill out the upper hull. I'll do the superstructure as I come to it.
Image

The seam where the two hull halves meet has a lot of dips and bulges to putty and sand. In order to reduce the need for that, I've cut out the bottom of the upper hull. This allows more flexibility in the upper hull for aligning the two halves as long as they are glued slowly. You can also see that I've cut off the tip of the front deck piece and glued it in place. I plan to use an after market deck placed over the original so no worries here.
Image

This is the first area that I want to attempt to change. I could be wrong, but I think that the anchor area is supposed to have a rounded bulge along the lower lip. Since I plan to display the left side. Any attempts to change things will be done to the right side first. Just in case...
Image

That's all for this week. It's not much, but at least it's a start.

Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:51 am 
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Location: alton hampshire uk
hi
i look forward to more of this
cheers
gary r

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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Hi everybody.

Gary -- Thanks for the comment, I appreciate it.

I had hoped to have some red on the lower hull and at least the first two camo colors on the upper hull but sanding the bow is taking longer than I expected. I did get a few other things done in between sandings.

Rudders and prop shafts have been added.
Image

By now we are all probably aware of the poor quality of the instructions. Even so, I wasn't expecting to find an error first thing. I thought I would include pics of instruction corrections as I proceed. If this seems too stupid, please let me know, and I will stop including the instructions.
Image

I have added strips of plastic to the lower bow as part of the sonar. This is based on a photo of Gneisenau's bow. However, the same details can be partially seen on a photo of Scharnhorst's bow as well.
Image

Cutting slices off of a "U" shaped plastic rod, I've placed them on the stern area as guides for the ropes that hold the propeller guards, which I like to have in the "out" position.
Image

After looking around more, I'm sure the lip should be there around the anchor. The shape is more uncertain. I've used some of that two part epoxy style putty here. Mixed it together, rolled out a line, ran it around the edge, then worked on shaping it. The stuff really dries too fast. I had to throw the rest away and mix a new batch for the other side. I'm not fully happy with the resulting shape but I can live with it. This picture shows up to the first layer of primer.
Image

That's it for now. I hope you like it. Questions and comments are always welcome.

Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:02 am 
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Posts: 102
Dan - Looking good! I've heard about the instruction sheet woes - thanks for making the corrections. I'm waiting for AAA Hobbies to get a shipment in from Dragon so I can get this kit, and I can refer to your build log for help. Keep the pics coming! More, more, more!!
Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:35 pm 
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Thanks Mark.

I will be trying to update regularly, as I proceed. I have lost track of the number of errors in the instructions. Hopefully I'll recall them as I come to them.

I've been watching your Prinz Eugen. It's looking great. I wish mine looked that good.

Next week I'll have the red hull ready for the boot top application. I imagine others probably do it about the same way, nobody has ever said though. Upper hull would have been ready for camo however I just realized that the degausing (probably spelled wrong) cable is missing and will have to be added. I wondered what something was in photo's but didn't really investigate until after the primer was done. :doh_1:

Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:02 am 
Looks like you’re making a very good job of this kit Dan. :smallsmile: I agree that there were lips under the anchor cluse (not sure what to call them) on the real ship and I think they can be seen in the 2nd photo.

http://www.scharnhorst-class.dk/scharnhorst/gallery/gallscharnrefit.html

I would like to ask how big an area did you fill at the bow and how big an area did you have to sand to make the lines fair?

I was also wondering if the boot topping should be on the upper hull? Photos I have seen after Operation Juno show the waterline being not far under the lower row of scuttles aft.

If you compare the distance between the top of the boot topping and the lower row of scuttles with the distance between the lower and upper row of scuttles in the photos at the botom of this webpage. It may look ike it has a disproporioioately large underwater hull, but I think it has to be correct.. What do you think?

http://www.scharnhorst-class.dk/scharnhorst/gallery/gallscharnjuno.html

edit It looks as if either the lower row of scuttles is too high on the model or the armour belt is too low. Looking at the 2nd bottom left photo, the top of the scuttles should be a bit below the top of the armour belt, the model has the tops of the scuttles in line with the top of the armour belt.. mmhh maybe better to stick to maximum draft for the top of the boot topping!!


http://www.scharnhorst-class.dk/scharnhorst/gallery/gallscharncommis.html


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:16 pm 
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Posts: 372
Hi Everybody,

Cerberusjf -- Thanks, I'm trying.

I'm familiar with the links you've posted. I've been looking over those pics a lot. In regards to the anchor lip, I'm not as concerned with the shape(although mine goes too far upwards in the front... oops.) as I am with the area underneath the lip. The shadows seem to conflict from time to time. Is there nothing there, or an inward curve like under a human lip, or an outward bulge like someone with chewing tobacco? I think its human lip, but with all my sanding around the edges, I've ended up with chewing tobacco style.

Up to this point, about 5 layers of bow putty have stretched from about 1/16 inch from the front, to about 1 1/2 inch back. 1/4 inch from the bottom up to about half way between the two rows of port holes.

For the boot top, I was originally going to use builders choice and put it entirely on the lower hull. Easier to mask and less putty work involved. Now however, plans have completely changed.

You're right, the bottom row of port holes do appear slightly too high. I hadn't noticed that. I plan to position the boot top based on the proportional method like you described but with one small change. I will try to find and average distance based on a number of the pics.

Ok, on to the update.

A question for anyone who knows. I think I recall reading that while Scharnhorst kept the center anchor chain hole in the bow, the corresponding hole in the deck was covered over. It that correct?

I've built the stand and added a plastic sheet to attach the name to, which I printed out in a font I like. The stand will be flat black. I prefer to draw as little attention away from the actual model as possible.
Image

In preparation for the after market deck, I've shaved off the 6 hatches and two walls that are on the main deck pieces.
Image

I drilled out the 6 holes in the bottom of the rear deck piece. They are needed for the torpedo launchers and torpedo storage containers. Then the rear deck was glued down. Contrary to the usual way, You should start at the back and make sure it's nice and tight and work your way forward. Rather than worry about the seam between the two deck halves.

After that, the bow still bugged me. It didn't look right. The dimple is gone, and I've sanded down the front edge. Making it sharper, to cut through the water so it looks sleek. The boot top position, will make it look low. But it just doesn't look long... So, I did some measurements. If all numbers are correct, it is 66.5 cm long. But, should be 67.3. It's too complicated to cut at the back. Easy to cut in the middle, but will mess up the superstructure. However, in the front, there are empty areas you can cut, without interfering with any deck detail. And since it looks to short particularly in the bow, it's convenient to cut there also.

These three pics show where I'm at now. And I must say, just that little bit makes it look a lot better to me.
Image
Image
Image

Thanks for viewing,

Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:35 pm 
Hi Dan,
You’ve done a tremendous job on the bow, it looks a lot better now!!! Much sleeker and more attractive. It looks like it took a lot of work to get there.

I would only use the proportion method to get a rough idea of where the waterline should be, if the reference points on the model are innacurate, then the method is compromised. Correct draught measurements would be better :smallsmile: . Sorry, I didn’t mean to take away the builder’s choice. You should do what you think right. :smallsmile:

About the centre bow anchor, I personally haven’t seen a cover over it. In fact, I used the centre anchor hawse to tell if some footage was of Scharnhorst or Gneisenau. It was present, so it had to be Scharnhorst. Also see these photos taken of her with her final camouflage. Interesting? :smallsmile:

http://bismarck-class-forum.dk/thread.php?threadid=4658

It looks like "chewing tobacco" hawse "lips" too?


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:44 pm 
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Hi Cerberusjf,

Thanks. I wasn't sure if I should make the cut or not. But I figured that once I found out about the length, It'd bug me every time I see it in the display case.

Perhaps the best way to position the boot top would be to measure proportions on the photos, and then transfer those proportions to the model with maybe the deck or armor plate as the base reference point. A rough guess would look to be that it starts about half way down the armor plate on the upper hull.

No worries about the earlier builders choice. I was just going to take the easy way out. I had intended to not glue the two hull halves together. In case I ever learn to waterscape. But fit was just too poor. Now that it's glued together, might as well try to place the stripe correctly.

I have two other german ships in my display case. Scharnhorst will be my third and last german ship. I want them to have a sense of family so I'll be making some "wrong" choices on purpose. I'll be using the same hull red(it's too dark officially but was what was available during previous builds). Propellers will be gold instead of brass for the same reason. And the brand of after market deck will be the same even though the new scaledecks version looks better.

Maybe I was wrong on the center bow anchor. I don't remember where I read it, or if it was even Scharnhorst.

Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:04 pm 
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Hi everybody,

I have never done anything so drastic to a ship before. The bow has had me stressed and worried. All the sanding has removed a lot of the port hole rain gutters, as I knew it would. I have no intention of replacing them. I feel they were an acceptable price to pay for the extension.

With that in mind, here is the bow. I consider it a complete success. Also I've glued down some 50lb. test fishing line to represent the degausing cable cover running down the length of the hull. Entire lower hull has been painted my choice of red. When it's dry and has gotten a clear flat coat on it, it'll look like a sort of dried blood red.
Image

Before I paint the upper hull, I've got one last correction to make. The location of the rear boat boom needs to be moved up a ways.
Image

Here she is overall and with the finished base.
Image

While this dries, I've started building page 1. I have only found 1 error in the instructions on page one, and one place for a sort of clarification.

This is the error. You should not glue E19 to E18. Instead, the green area of E18 is supposed to be glued to the underside of E17 in the general area of the green mark. A warning though, If you are already concerned about the height of this gun, building it as I suggest, will make it even taller.
Image

For clarification, the parts MA28, MA29, and MA30 that are attached to the primary turret, look like they go down, then bend left or right, then continue on down. They are supposed to go down, then bend out away from the wall of the turret, then on down.

As for my progress, I've replaced the barrels in C1 and C2 with brass. I will be using blast bags, but have gone ahead and assembled G1, the full version of the Single barrel secondary gun. Then I cut the gun C10 off just in front of the elevation pins, and glued the back half of the gun into the turret, so that it wont be hollow while using the blast bags.
Image

I have not used any of the small photo etch called for on page 1 prior to the main turret. I tried, but unfortunately, found it to be too small and annoying for either my skill or my patience.

Thanks for viewing.

Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:28 am
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Location: alton hampshire uk
hi
lookin good
i was going to ask about the degussing band no need now
the wood deck your waiting for is it the scaledeck or another?
keep going we are watching and learning
cheers
gary r

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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Posts: 372
Hi Gary.

Thanks.

My first idea was to use large diameter thread like that used to rig model sailing ships. I figured that when it absorbed the super glue and got paint over it, it'd lose its texture and look smooth. Unfortunately, I seem to have thrown that all away at some point. So, second choice was fishing line. I went to the lhs later and discovered half flat, plastic rod. I bought some, but when I looked at the two side by side, I decided to keep the fishing line on instead.

I've already got my deck. I just haven't done anything with it yet. It's still too early. I'll deal with it after the hull camo is complete. I've seen your posts concerning the Scaledecks deck. Looks like it will be really nice. I'm doing mine differently.
Based on:
(1)my early misunderstanding of the gap at the rear of the deck in Tracy's build.
(2)my personal requirement that the deck must look like my Bismarck and Prinz Eugen decks.
(3)my desire to try something to correct what I think is a slight error in the after market decks.

I've chosen to use KA Models uncut deck sheets and cut my own pieces out of it. Makes it handy in a way. If I didn't have them, I couldn't have lengthened the bow. They gave me the liberty to cut up and destroy the deck planking pattern. None of the precut decks would fit now with my bow mod.

I've continued to build sections up prior to doing any paint. I'm now at the end of the weapons section on page 2 of the instructions. I'm waiting for photo etch from WEM now. Sadly, the quality control aspect has really fallen on page 2. I'll have about 9-10 things to point out this next weekend.

Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:26 pm 
That's a really excellent job you did on the bow! Very well done! I'm surprised the small guns E18+E19 were even higher if built correctly, it's a pity. i was expecting them to be more correct if anything. Are there any aftermarket replacements?


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:16 am 
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Location: alton hampshire uk
hi
eduard do a set 20,37 and quads
cheers
gary r

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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Thanks cerberusjf. Only by a little bit, but yes, taller. Thanks for the info Gary, I'm gonna leave the other guns as good enough and just replace the singles. Either with the nice looking ones included in WEM's Scharnhorst set, or experiment with sandwiching their gun between some strips of plastic to thicken it up a bit. Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:01 am 
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Location: Yorkshire, Great Britain
Got my Scharnhorst last month, been trying to fathom out the instructions for two weeks.
Thanks for the posts on the instructions, please keep them coming.
Finding out in advance and avoiding mistakes is preferable to the frustration of having to
take bits apart and starting again.
Regards
Richard :thumbs_up_1:

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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:30 am 
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Hi Richard,
I preordered mine from Freetime Hobbies as soon as it was available. I've been puzzling over the instructions since it arrived. I'll try to post all the errors from page 2 this weekend. One of them 'got me' this week. Thankfully, it's one of the simpler ones and will only need some putty and a very small drill bit. Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:10 pm 
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Hi everybody,

So... First off, I noticed a couple finger prints in the red hull. It's now drying again....

A single picture of my progress.

A) Adding photo etch to the boats. I'll try to canvas it. Drilled out the small port holes to.

B) Other boat type. Replaced rudders on both types but, propellers were too small for me.

C) My modified small crane. Both nice winches are on the same crane for a better look. I';; make two winches out of scrap for the crane on the other side.

D) One of the big cranes done. Not really satisfied with the rigging. This one will probably go on the other side. Might try to modify crane to match instruction corrections. Results will decide which side each one ends up on.

E) Size comparison between a sailor and one of the photo etch single machine guns. I've decided not to try and bulk it up. Even it was a little too tall. I had to bend the base sideways at the bottom to lower it.

F) My hybrid catapult. Plastic base and girder support. After market on top of that. Original plastic details added back. But railing replaced with the one from Dragon expansion set. I liked the look of the sloped ends.

G) All plastic guns ready for paint now.
Image

Now on to the page 2 corrections.....

Picture 1: No description needed.
Image

Picture 2: Ladder MA33 needs to be moved to be more in line with ladder MA27. Turret part A1 has holes in the underside of it that can be opened up to help in the placement of the parts A6.
Image

Picture 3: Again, the small photo etch pipes need to go down, then out away from the wall, then down again.
Image

Picture 4: From what little I've seen, Rob's crane design is accurate. What came in the model has been altered and simplified. To be accurate again the seat post and steering wheel post have to both be moved farther towards the outside. And a second winch has to be added.
Image

Picture 5: No description needed.
Image

Picture 6: Longer(green) tabs on U3 and U8 go in larger depressions in U4. And shorter(blue) tabs likewise. Deck is missing on U8. You can replace it with after market or plastic sheet or even thick paper. Or you can just go without it. U14 as a mounting bracket for the airplane is an absolute joke. Really should replace or modify it.
Image

Anyway, that's it for this week. I hope to be mostly painting next week and building all the other duplicates of the pieces I've built so far. The only new thing I plan to build of interest is the forward radar, observation post, range finder area.

Thanks for looking.

Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:27 am 
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Location: alton hampshire uk
hi
very informative thank you for taking the time to do that
but i expect when i come to it i will forget about this update of yours and make loads of cock ups
oh um
cheers
gary r

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 Post subject: Re: Scharnhorst 1/350
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:29 pm 
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Thanks Gary.

That's the joy of "right click, save as". I've got pictures scattered all over 3 hard drives for trying to get this built right. And I'm still going to get parts wrong. It'll be nice to be able to delete all of it once I'm done.

Dan.


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