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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:42 pm 
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Really impressive!

Perhaps these photos are helpful:
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_imagebrowser&view=gallery&folder=victory-portsmouth&Itemid=55
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_imagebrowser&view=gallery&folder=victory-kanonen&Itemid=55
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_imagebrowser&view=gallery&folder=hms_victory&Itemid=55

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:09 am 
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Thank you very much Maxim,

thank you for the links, very welcome. Saw them on my morning breakfast-modelmarine-lecture when they came out, but lost the links ever since ...

good to have them back :-)

All the best, Daniel

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:16 am 
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As usual I started with making a small pile of rubbish ...

Image

... than marking the positions for the new mast hoops on the now naked masts, fixing the start and bending round with some hair clamps.

Image.

Small quizz: whats that:

Image

Gettit?

Image

The supports of the boom´s saddle.

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Also renewed the ring for the belay pins and brought it into a horizontal orientation and checked the height with the old trial poop deck.

Refined the edges and corners of the cheecks, hounds and fishes ...

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...painted, inked and highlighted as usual, and the mizzen mast was done, here compared to the fore.

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One can nicely see the more ladylike proportions, the different angle of the testle trees, the missing rubbing fish in the front and the missing of tapering and rubbing battens on the top.

Image

Image

And also this joke I could not resist: Usually the masthoops were painted black as a standard. Nelson gave order to repaint them in buff according the rest of the masts for recognition reasons. But as the painters were lazy - or better said economical - the hoops underneath the quarterdeck stayed black :-)
Image

But stop, something elementary was missing, the belay pins ...

Okok, making some new ones in 1:100 ...

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... some wire, put in a stand, some white glue to form a drop on the top and some paint spilt over it. All exactly 4 mm long, just standing a little bit messy in the stand.

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Things got stuck together - pins with rail and pins-rail-mast together with trial poop deck ...

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... it goes deep down ...

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... and much up :-)

Image

All the best, Daniel

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Nothing exaggerating new, business as usual ...

... main mast done, together with the oob-version ...

Image

Image

Image

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... and the mizzen got his split lines.

Image

Happy rest-eastern, Daniel

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:59 pm 
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I have just re-studied your images--that is very very good work!

thanks you for sharing this constructional gem! :thumbs_up_1:

Jim Baumann

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Thank you Jim - my pleasure!

All the best, Daniel

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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 Post subject: Holy impatience ...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:10 pm 
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... still not happy with the self made lines ...

... the thick ones no problem, the thin ones are a drag ...

... but big want to continue. The best result was a 0,3 mm Krick-line, that I unraveled and laid from new :-)

But first came sorting the rings ...

Image

... by size and form, served hot on tape ...

Image

... and fixed on the lower deck guns. Then came the lead aprons for the gun locks ...

Image

... the line for the tompions and some turns around the muzzle.

Image

As I had to preassemble the gun outside, the task was that all the lengths for the rig are different due to the tumbledome and the different breadth of the deck.

First fixing a template ...

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... and it fits :-)

Image

Now some bondage - I like making some guns happy ;-)

First the breechline around the bum, fixing with CA ...

Image

... knotted in the front, the groove on the side helps as a guide for the height ...

Image

... and two wedges to make it tight. Then flooded the breechline with CA and phase 1 done :-)

Phase 2 some more bondage, a shortened needle is a good help ...

Image

... and well bound and done too.

Image

Then still fixed a gauge for the upper lashing ...

Image

... some CA-flooding and phase 3 done too :-)

After freeing the whole thing it stands nicely there ...

Image

... held to its final place and shortened the over lenghts. Fixed some rings as they might be seen by the open gunports.

Image

Image

And finalemente the whole in place. That is what I was looking for.

Image

Small check from the outside:

Image

The side takles will still be set, but this will be the next story :-)

Lieber Gruß, Daniel

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Your work is excellent. Shes looking really good.

I have a Caldercraft 1:72 version if the Victory that I will be building someday.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:57 am 
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Thank you jlogicalor, very appreciated :-)

And some more basic work. To do the side takles I need small blocks. The smallest commercially available are the 2 mm from JB, great stuff but still a little bit to big for ma taste. So I wanted to see what there is still possible :-)

Literature shows several ways of doing blocks, most of them done in a similar way, so I am following that, just have to take out most of the machinery because of the size.

First I prepared a batten of 1,5 mm high and 1 mm thick, and marked it all 2 mm which gave the basic size of these ambitious project ...

Image

... each of these marks got a diagonal cut in one direction and after all done, the batten was turned and the other side cut, so the grooves on one side were finished. Repeated on all four sides ...

Image

... and this was achieved rather fast, some matt varnish to strengthen the edges ...

Image

... and first drilling tests ...

Image

... with the 0,5er drill. Result, difficult to get the right place, so more testing until it looked like in a swiss cheese factory ...

Image

... and finally the enlightenment: drill fixed in the stand, a stop in 0,5 mm distance is fixed. The stop has the width of 2 mm which facilitates positioning.
Now hold the batten tight and near at both sides and slide it up the stop until drilled ...

Image

... move down and turn the batten 180° around the longitudinal axis, slide up and drill the second hole :-)
(I spared you the fingers on the picture :-)

Looks already ok, the four blocks left of my little worker are the single blocks of 1 mm x 1 mm x 2 mm - hihihihihi - ...

Image

... a second coat of varnish, the cutter makes the groove on the side for the line - the most difficult part on the whole action - some sanding off of the edges, some more varnish and done. They stay on the batten and will be cut just prior to production for not getting lost - just in time production :-)

Image

Just a family picture: the Krick 3 mm, the JB 2 mm and Microline from dafi, and as it looks nice a macro shot.

Image

So I already see the crowd out there laughing in anticipation of the knots in dafis fingers, while trying to tying some rigging onto these littel bits ...

Stay tuned, Daniel

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To Victory and beyond ...
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=99050&start=60

See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com


Last edited by dafi on Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:44 pm 
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You are quite insane Daniel but then I have come to expect that from you over the years.
Excellent as ever but just how many blocks are you going to need to make like this? Can you cast them in resin while they are still as a strip? You would still have to drill them but it would save time.

Rob.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:51 am 
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Thank you Rob, trying not to disappoint you :-)

And now to something completely different - the strops ...

First threading test ...

Image

... first had to squeeze the tip of my threading help to a smaller diameter, then pulled gently with brutal force this thickish 0,3 line through ...

Image

... and test step N° 1 completed :-)

More difficult is the stropping as I remember from the tiller, so taking the line out again for security reasons as some glueing will be required ...

Image

... fix the stropping line with one drop of CA in the groove on one side, carry once around the block, fix the extra strop for the hook, prepare the loop of thin line for securing the ensemble, fix it with Uhu Plast, - good fix but can be reopened if necessary - position the knots and ends properly, fix for good with CA, and once more I do a good cut :-)

And then with good hope and high expectations back to the scene of crime ...

Image

... and not tooo bad - and there are really two separate holes in the 1,5 mm block :-)

Image

Okokok, the back hook still is too long, the line a packet string and the splices worth 24 with the cat´o´24-tails ...

... but the direction is right :-)

Disclaimer 1: This was a test, I wont do thaaaaaat for the lower deck guns ;-)
Disclaimer 2: I took a barrel with a sinking mark to remind you of the provenience of this model ...

Reminder to myself: Check out, someone mentioned something that there should be sheaves ...


Lieber Gruß, Daniel

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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 Post subject: Don´t fear the Reeper
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:21 pm 
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Come on baby...don't fear the reeper
Baby feel the thread...don't fear the reeper
We'll be able to tie...don't fear the reeper
Baby I'm your man...


If one is stuck and does not move the right direction one should do what should have been done in the start - Listen to your inner voice and listen to the others :-)

Not: "I-wanna-have-a-ropewalk-and-do-same-nice-ropes-as-seen-on-the-modelling-exhibition" but "I-need-great-ropes-for-my-Vic"

That changes a lot as I am building a completely different scale. Changes a lot towards the materials and the usage of the walk. So freshly focussed back to work:

First listen to the others: Oli/Modellbaumechaniker and Holger/Pollux from my german forums gave me the right hints for the right materials. Fil au chinois and flyfishing lines were the right hints!
http://www.neheleniapatterns.com/html/filagant.html
http://www.baker-flyfishing.com/shop/bi ... php?v=n183

And this is what came:
The bigger bobbins are the fil au chinois, numbers for the colors see the picture
The smaller bobbin sare from the flyfishing, Uni-Thread green 8/0 the thin one, orange 6/0 the middle one, the thick 3/0 and the superthin 17/0

Image
Image

The fil au chinois is cotton with very little fussy bits, the Uni is free of fuzz.
The Uni has a large range of colors avaliable, unfortunately not all colors in all sizes. The 8/0 and 6/0 are great for my purpose, the 3/0 has the great appearence of colored dental floss and the 17/0 is also quite uneven and transparent.

First tests proved to be the right direction sizewise :-)

Left the fuzzy thread from the supermarket, my thinnest possibility before this date. Then comes the fil au chinois, the Uni 8/0 and the Uni17/0, always the original strand, then two, 3 and 6 stranded with blocks of 3 mm, 2 mm and 1,5 mm for comparison.

Image

And the first test also showed that turning the axis by hand is a tad tiring and the cordless screwdriver is a little bit unhandy and also too insensitive ...

...

So ...

... reopening the Fischertechnik box from my youth, getting the motors out, glueing them with double sided tape onto the machinery, here the pretwisting side to be seen ...

Image

... and the laying side ...

Image

... the motor can be turned sideways to reposition the hooks ...

Image

... and felt was put untderneath for easy gliding, and a steel ruler in the middle to control the movements of the sliding parts :-)

Both sides were clampedto the rail to be able to put the yarn properly. After chasing behind the bobbin for several times, a holder like the sewing machines ones was introduced, and from there the the yarn was brought to the hooks of the pretwisting side - I am showing a 6-stranded rope - ...

Image

... and after 3 times twice forth and back ...

Image

... the yarn was fixed on the laying side.

Image

The steel ruler shows the movement of the slide - I use 10% on this rope - loosen the clamp on the laying side, the pretwisting hooks start turning and the opposite slide starts moving miraculously towards the predrilling slide :-)

Image

If the required distance is achieved, I clamp both sides onto the rail, and the three strands are laid until the required tension is achieved ...

Image

... some CA for fixing ...

Image

...going with the fingernails over to release unwanted tension ...

Image

... and you can make a clean cut.


Lessons learned

You can see two things:

First: I am not using any more the little guide block.
No difference to be seen apart from that it is much more even ;-)

Secondly: I am fixing both sides while laying the rope! In the first trials I had the trouble, that the start of the rope was coming out nicely tight and the second half was much more loose ...
I realised that at the start of laying the pretwisting slide does not move, and the shortening of the rope is only compensated by the lateral spreading of the yarn. Just later on the slide starts moving. But it was not just after I forgot once to remove the clamp of this slide and got out a great and even clean cable that I realised, that the loosness of the rope came from the missing tension on the other side.

The next tests without the guide and fixed slides prooved to be successful :-) Just if the motor is having to work too hard, I stop it and I loosen the tension a tad by carefully moving the slide and then contimue.


Come on baby...don't fear the Reeper
Baby feel the thread...don't fear the Reeper


... and the part that should be pronounced is: feel the thread :-)

XXXDAn

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:23 pm 
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... and now we are going through the thick ;-)

Some of the samples that came out:

Here are the different raw materials that were used from right to left:

No 20 crochet thread - the thinnest from the wool shop -, a 0,4 mm metal thread for comparison, the fuzzy yarn from the supermarket, the 3/0 Uni, the 6/0 Uni, das 8/0 Uni, the 17/0 uni and the fil au chinois.
Image

Here the macros from the tests (the laid ropes were done in an early stage, so they are still quite uneven), the numbers indicate the number of strands.
Supermarkets´yarn
Image
Fil au chinois
Image
8/0er Uni
Image

After I found no color scale in the shop, I ordered all colors that were not unsuitable for sure. So I used the surplus colors for the tests, here the Rusty Brown:
The great result is, that I can do everything I need with the Uni 8/0 :-) :-) :-)

Image

And again the numbers indicate the number of single strands. The AOTS of the Vic shows a nice tablature about all the ropes and their required sizes. And once again I see, that we often take too thick lines for the rigging ...

The lower shrouds should be a 30, the ratlines the pure yarn!!!

Twists and turns

Apart from the 2 and 3 stranded rope it is possible to make Z and S laid ropes as required :-) Those two ones mentioned have first to be untwisted, which results in a more uneven rope. But as they are so thin that it is impossible to be seen in a model of that scale, there is always a possibility of cheating

Colors

One of the reasons to do my own rope was to be able to choose the color. The available once for the standing rigging are too black, the one for the running rigging to colorful. Research in the reenactment-scene shows faded grey ropes: http://europe-today.ru/2012/03/stroitel ... let-nazad/.

I choose the color Tan, as it is avaliable in 8/0 and 6/0 and I will help perhaps with a little bit of ink once it is installed.

For the black I found a nice solution: I mix colors while laying.
Black with dark brown gives exactely the shade I found on old tarred ropes.

Image

The color can be nicely adjusted by the quantities of the colors within the mixing. Also you can nicely see the different hands on the picture.
As for the running rigging I will possibly also mix in some strands of a less colorful yarn.

Laying cables

And then the hour of truth: Using the self made ropes to make cables for anchor and shrouds:

Image

Looks promising ;-)

Baby feel the thread...don't fear the Reeper


The best is, the production now goes so easily and uncomplicatedly that I will not prepare to much rope in advance and will lay it as "just in time production" in the needed quantity and thickness while rigging :-)

So the first production for the lower deck is done ...

Image

... and please tune in again when we come to the next line of the famous song ...

Come on baby...don't fear the Reeper
Baby feel the thread...don't fear the Reeper
We'll be able to tie...don't fear the Reeper


Alles Gute, Daniel

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:45 pm 
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Now that is beautifully illustrated--with an excellent tangible result...

all that with the 'Blue Oyster Cult's song ringing in my ears....


( showing your/our age!!! :cool_2: )

most impressive methodology and innovative use of the Fisher Technix !

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:41 am 
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Couldn't agree more... this is what I call true modelling. The ingenuity of the use of this jig/tool and the application is just a further example of the very high standard of work carried out earlier in this build.

Truly impressed! :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Fantastic Daniel. As ever, going the extra mile and then some.

I have some of the fly fishing line to try when I rig Scharnhorst. I will need some flag lanyards in 350th fancy knocking me up some? :heh:

Rob.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm 
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Thank you Jim, Bill and Rob :-)

It is a treat to get feedbacks like this from masters of the art like you are!
You are very indulgent!

@Rob: Do you need it 2 or 3 stranded? ;-)

I soon will get some fishing line 20/0 in black - curious for that one. If one uses the transparent fishing lines, it could be a try to dye them with cloth dye into the desired color.

All the best, Daniel

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To Victory and beyond ...
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=99050&start=60

See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com


Last edited by dafi on Wed May 16, 2012 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:46 am 
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That's some amazing detail work! I can't wait to see it when it's done! I build this model right out of the box when I was a teenager, so I can appreciate all the extra work being put into it. Nothing short of amazing! :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:00 pm 
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Thank you Channell :-)

Sometimes, yes sometimes I wonder why-why-why ...

... but after looking at my first lashing trials done with supermarket yarn for the tampions and the apron, 0,3 Krick line for the lashing and a breech rope laid out of the same material ...

Image

... and when I compare with my own material ...

Image

... I do remember why :-)

Lieber Gruß, Daniel

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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 Post subject: Quiz
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 4:13 am 
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Oh these days I used the whole 2,5 meters of my Reeperbahn :-)

Image

The anchor cables and messengers were due

As the small motors were to small dimensioned, I had to use the electric drill. And for long ropes or ropes with many single threads ...

Image

... one has to knot each of the three strands on the predrilling side together for not getting small lumps. Three of the resulting cables were laid further to create the bigger ones ...

Image

... and for an enjoyable result :-)

The anchor cable has a diameter of 2 mm which equals about 24" circumference on the original, the messenger should have about the half, this one being still too thick with 1,5 mm. This means, half of the yarn is not resulting into half the diameter.

Interesting is, that even though I used the same proportions of the colors Tan and Rusty Dun, the resulting cable have different colors. Possibly because the messenger is tighter laid, there is not as much light from the surface penetrating the outer yarn and being reflected inside.

To compensate I added one part of white to the existing two colors ...

Image

... and the result can be seen compared to the middle messenger. On the bottom the thinner messenger of 1 mm is shown, which - using the same colors as the first one - appears lighter due to be laid less tight.

Image

That the first messenger was laid too tight I realised, as some of the outer fibres were broken ...

Image

... so less tension was used for the following cables. The problems on the broken one I was able to fix by cutting off the bitts and smoothening it with Uhu-Plast.

Next came parcelling and servig

That one is for you Evan ;-)
I realised, that on a lot of great models, the parcelling and serving made the cable too thick, due to the too thick diameter of the material used. But as the fishing line is like dental floss, it flattens up while beeing wrapped around ...

Image

... and even shows the structure underneath, something I saw on the originals :-)
Still a little ink or chalk to get the plastic gloss off, and it will be ok.

And of course I could not resist, to try out a spliced eye on the messenger :-)


And now the quiz:

How many meters of 8/0 fishing line are used for this anchor cable of 1,5 meters? Diameter is 2 mm.

Image

Good luck with guessing, estimating or calulating :-)

Lieber Gruß, Daniel

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com


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