German Zerstorer 1934 and Zerstorer 1934A Classes

Anonymous · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:02 am

Hello,

Maybe there is here anyone to advice me where or how to get copies of orginal builders plans of German prewar Destroyers.
I mean "as fitted" Inboard Profile, Cross-sections and Deck and Superstructures plans of Z1-Z4 group with rounded bridge and Z9-Z13
or Z14-Z16 group orginally built with square bridge front.

I have no idea where to search in Germany. It is also possible they (the plans) "travelled" as war prise to US and/or British Archives so
the help from out there woul be highly appreciared.

Problem No. two:
For more than a year I've struggled to prepare the synoptical table of appearance differences among paricular ships of these classes in
Pre-War period. I don't mean so prominent as the hull and bridge shape but smaller details like propeller guards, steam pipes on funnels, antenna support on forward funnel, boiler room fan intakes, etc.
I have practically all German published sources concerning German Destroyers subject but it is not enought. Maybe someone have some
unpublished ships' and/or on board prewar or early war stages pics and is ready to share. I would be untold happy

Anonymous · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:25 am

Unfortunately I cannot help you, but I am anxiuous to know if you've found good/excellent drawings of these destroyers thoughout their carreers. I can only find the 36(a) types so far...

http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1840

Anonymous · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:39 am

EJ Foeth wrote:

Unfortunately I cannot help you, but I am anxiuous to know if you've found good/excellent drawings of these destroyers thoughout their carreers. I can only find the 36(a) types so far...

http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1840

It's very sad but these Destroyers are practically neglected and all fan's attention is put on later and more sophisticated Destroyers
with 150mm guns. Pity!
The best , being the copy of Yard drawings consisting Iboard Profile and Deck/Superstructure Plan (fold-out about 1:270 scale but very clear and detailed) you can find in N. Klapdor's "Der Zerstorer Friedrich Ihn" published in 1996 by Verlag Mittler&Sohn.
The drawings show Z14 Friedrich Ihn in sommer 1940 with tripod mast, early radar and higher mounted propeller guards.
The book itself is highly recommended as gold mine of on board pics.

There are also Koop/Schmolke's Planmappe but Zerstorer 1934A is represented by Z15 Erich Steinbrinck scale 1:200, Inboard Profile
and Decks but quite simplified.
If looking for other than typ 36(A) in Koop/Schmolke's Planmappe you can find Z28 in october 1943(1936A but with superpositioned forward guns) -very detailed with sections,etc. next Z32 in April 1942 with double mounting on forecastle (type 36A Mob. from above view and Inboard Profile) plus Z17-Z19 as built with Deck Plan,Sections an Inboard (Inboard quite simplified) and Z20 Karl Galster from May 1940 Inboard and from above view -very detailed. All in 1:200 scale

If you care about anything listed above I can copy it for you.

Anonymous · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:47 pm

PS to my last message:
German Site http://www.vth.de offers, among others, two interesting plans sets (nice!) of Kaiserliche Marine Grosse Torpedoboote B98 and V116. They were in fact Destroyers according to British standarts. V116 was armed with 150mm guns and was an ancestor of Zerstorer
1934. They aren't stricte what you asked for but may be some sentimental add to later ships.

Anonymous · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:30 am

Klapdor's book was on Amazon.de but has just been sold (there's still a copy for €38).

I am gathering information for a diorama with Tirpitz I intend to start in 1-2 years. I want to scratchbuild Tirpitz during Sizilien with 2 flanking destroyers. These were present at the time: Erich Steinbrinck, Karl Galster, Hans Lody, Theodor Riedel, Z27, Z29, Z30, Z31, Z33. I found the drawings for the 36(A)'s, but the 36 and 36A types are disappointingly similar. The drawings are nice, even though the 43 versions are not spelled out in detail. Camouflage/Painting is also still a minor issue.

Are the planmappe any good? I;ve seen screenshots and wasn;t impressed.

Anonymous · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:00 am

you can try to open the russian url, if you are very very patient, so slow:
http://Links to this site not allowed due to copyright violations./WeaponBook/ ... /index.htm
http://Links to this site not allowed due to copyright violations./WeaponBook/ ... /index.htm
http://Links to this site not allowed due to copyright violations./Magazine/MK ... /index.htm
lot of fotos (Иллюстрации) and draws (Чертежи)
with some help of a translater like altavista you can understain whot they say
ciao peppe

Anonymous · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:32 am

EJ Foeth wrote:

Klapdor's book was on Amazon.de but has just been sold (there's still a copy for €38).

Herr Klapdor is not renowed Navy specialist. He wrote this book to honour the ship and her crew who evacuated his Father
among thousends of others from East Prussia in 1945. The book is very illustrative and nicely edited.

I am gathering information for a diorama with Tirpitz I intend to start in 1-2 years. I want to scratchbuild Tirpitz during Sizilien with 2 flanking destroyers. These were present at the time: Erich Steinbrinck, Karl Galster, Hans Lody, Theodor Riedel, Z27, Z29, Z30, Z31, Z33. I found the drawings for the 36(A)'s, but the 36 and 36A types are disappointingly similar. The drawings are nice, even though the 43 versions are not spelled out in detail. Camouflage/Painting is also still a minor issue.

I'm very curious what scale will be your diorama.
All listed by you "named" Destroyers 1934A were build by different yards so their detailed appearance differences in big scale may
be important. All they had been modernised along similar lines (funnels lowering, AA armament, radar, foremast tripod) but still existed
those questions I'm fighting with now!
Karl Galster was the last Mohican of 1936 class (other five were lost in Narvik) and was different in dimentions, hull shape,etc,etc.
Type 36A a was also different in hull shape (fore and aft) and in details and 36A mob differed from type 36A in fore funnel cape shape and mainmast depending the builder.
I think you have taken a big challange to build this diorama knowing the references are spread among many sources. I wish you success.
If I can help you I'll do it with pleasure (I'm not an expert in later German Destroyers but I could dig out my Library, ie. pics etc.)

Are the planmappe any good? I;ve seen screenshots and wasn;t impressed.

Depends what you are looking for. Not good for very detailed, big scale model but for , let's say, 1:200 no bad at all.
They were drawn from builder plans and some details are schematic (light AA, rangefinders,etc)

Anonymous · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:36 am

I did something wrong and my answer was located in quote, so you must find it there. Sorry.

Anonymous · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:56 am

The models will be in 1/350 scale, but my requirements for details is easily more than for most 1:200 models (as you can see here http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2826).

I have Meinhards Destroyer drawins, the Gally Tirpitz set and numerous publications and other drawings. So most details are spelled out quite clearly, except the early destroyers. If I cannot find anything I'll build a 36 and a 36A with minor variations.

I've ordered a drawing of Admiral Hipper from vth. I already bought the GRaf Spee planset and it's quite nice. To also sell some smaller drawings, I ordered a few to see what quality they are. Of course, Tirpitz and Hipper during Rösselsprng is possible, but an insane amount of work.

Laurence Batchelor · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:18 am

My advice would be to contact the National Maritime Museum in London. They have a website and you can get the email address for the plans dept. off it. Just do a google search.

Or you can pay a visit to the Brass Foundry at Woolwich Arsenal which I did last summer which is whre they are kept and you can obtain copies, at a price I may add! or just view the stuff!.

This is where all the Admiralty plans are kept and it is the largest collection of ship plans in the world as nearly all the commercial ship plans have ended up there!

When I asked them if they kept plans for other Navies the chaps there told me they certainly did and they kept quite a bit from the Kreigsmarine.

So maybe they have your plans for the German Destroyers you are looking for. If they dont they will certainly put you in touch with the relevant german archive which will.

Regards
Laurence

Anonymous · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:14 pm

Thanks Laurence,

I will contact NMM as soon as possible. I had been prepared for that but I hoped I would find it somewhere closer (Germany).
Anyway I'll also try to contact with Bundesarchivs/Militararchivs Freiburg and some other German Archives (I have addresses).
Unfortunately they have no Web Sites so I'll have to hand write. It will be a kind of challenge! And I've put it off for long enought.
The tradition of letters writing was left far behind.

Regards

Filipe Ramires · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:25 pm

I would recommend Warships of the World Nº 11 by Maciej S. Sobanski "Narvik class destroyers". Perhaps you can find something of interest there.

JWintjes · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:26 pm

MM wrote:

Thanks Laurence,

I will contact NMM as soon as possible. I had been prepared for that but I hoped I would find it somewhere closer (Germany).
Anyway I'll also try to contact with Bundesarchivs/Militararchivs Freiburg and some other German Archives (I have addresses).
Unfortunately they have no Web Sites so I'll have to hand write. It will be a kind of challenge! And I've put it off for long enought.
The tradition of letters writing was left far behind.

Regards

Ehm, the German Bundesarchiv has an excellent website:

http://www.bundesarchiv.de/

You have to go to "Bestände & Findmittel" and then klick on the first item in the small menu, "Beständeübersicht". This will bring you to this page:

http://www.bundesarchiv.de/bestaende_fi ... meset.html

You want "Abteilung MA", where you can the surf to the "Nachgeordnete Dienststellen" of the Kriegsmarine; under RM 25 you'll find the "Hauptamt Kriegsschiffbau" stuff, that should be this page (if the link doesn't work, you'll have to navigate from the previous page I mentioned):

http://www.bundesarchiv.de/bestaende_fi ... chbegriff=

Which is where you could look; I'd try to send them an email first.

Jorit

Anonymous · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:36 pm

It WORKS !!!

I'll try to e.mail them on Monday.

Thanks a lot!

Anonymous · **Posted:** Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:51 am

one more russian url, slow but full of images and draws:
http://Links to this site not allowed due to copyright violations./Magazine/MK ... /index.htm
and related
http://Links to this site not allowed due to copyright violations./Magazine/MK ... /index.htm
http://Links to this site not allowed due to copyright violations./Magazine/MK ... /index.htm
ciao peppe

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