North Russia 1919

finnfan · **Posted:** Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:05 am

I am looking for any references, particularly plans or photos for vessels involved in the North Russia Campaign of 1919. Specifically they are:
River monitor Humber,
River gunboats Cicala, Cockchafer, Cricket Glowworm, Mantis and Moth,
7.5 inch monitor M25
4.7 inch monitor M27
Monitors M29, M31 and M33. I have a lot of pictures of M33 as she is preserved at Portsmouth, but would be very interested in anything which shows her in 1919.
HMS Fox
HMS Hyderabad
The information on naval-history.net site has got me interested in modelling these unusual subjects from an almost-forgotten campaign.
Thanks in advance
Don

Terry Pottle · **Posted:** Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:56 am

The answer is, of course Buxton's Big Gun Monitors, at least for Humber and the numbered monitors.
Although the details for the 1919 campaign against the Red Russians is not covered very well, there are plans of the ships and some photos.

Fox and Hyderbad are not mentioned, and the River Gunboats only in passing.
Maybe the revised version that is being published next year (?) may have more information.

I also recall a book about the War of Intervention, but am afraid that the title eludes me, but most tended to treat the military aspects not so much the naval. I will see if I can find out more.

Sounds like a good idea for modelling.
Good luck

bengtsson · **Posted:** Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:42 am

I'de suggest an inquiry with the Imperial War Museum Photo Dept. They hold alot of unusal photos and I'de say it is almost a sure bet that have some from the Royal Navy presence in North Russia 1919. Hard to say till you get a look at their file catalog at the photo dept. itself. I know I have seen photos and read accounts of the RNs operations, I'm looking to see where in my book collection they might be.
If you have serious modeling plans, a trip to London may be worth it.

Bob B.

RickF · **Posted:** Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:23 pm

There are several pictures of "Insect" class gunboats in Russia in "Gunboats of the Royal Navy" by Paul J Kemp.

If you cannot get hold of a copy I am more than happy to scan them for you and either post them on here or email them.

There is also a plan on here http://www.mo-na-ko.net/plans/plany_v.htm

Rick

finnfan · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:25 pm

Thanks for all the advice.

I had an old Model Boats drawing of the Ladybird class, but the on-line plan is more detailed. I have located and ordered a copy of Kemp's book on the Gunboats of the Royal Navy, but blanched when I saw the prices being asked for Ian Buxton's book - none less than £100.

I don't live too far from the Imperial War Museum and am planning a visit.

Best wishes

Don

bengtsson · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:31 pm

finnfan wrote:

Thanks for all the advice.

I had an old Model Boats drawing of the Ladybird class, but the on-line plan is more detailed. I have located and ordered a copy of Kemp's book on the Gunboats of the Royal Navy, but blanched when I saw the prices being asked for Ian Buxton's book - none less than £100.

I don't live too far from the Imperial War Museum and am planning a visit.

Best wishes

Don

Make sure to contact the IWM Photo Dept. first and make an appointment. You need to be cleared beforehand to get in to do research.
Best of luck. :eyebrows:

My interest in the Royal Navy Gunboats is connected with their service in China. Especially those on the Yangtse. For anyone interested, "Gunboats on the Great River, A History of the Royal Navy on the Yangtze" by Gregory Hanes MacDonald and Jane's London 1976 is a good general history. Several nice photos of Bee and Ladybird, Scarab and Cricket, Aphis. Impressive looking boats in their white paint schemes. Now there is a model I would like to build, a classic insect class in China Yangtze river white!

Bob B.

RickF · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:46 pm

I made a start on one at 1:48. Got as far as the basic hull - 57 inches long - but was not happy with the tunnels for the two screws, so it got shelved. May go back to it.....one day!

Rick

bengtsson · **Posted:** Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:07 am

finnfan wrote:

I am looking for any references, particularly plans or photos for vessels involved in the North Russia Campaign of 1919. Specifically they are:
River monitor Humber,
River gunboats Cicala, Cockchafer, Cricket Glowworm, Mantis and Moth,
7.5 inch monitor M25
4.7 inch monitor M27
Monitors M29, M31 and M33. I have a lot of pictures of M33 as she is preserved at Portsmouth, but would be very interested in anything which shows her in 1919.
HMS Fox
HMS Hyderabad
The information on naval-history.net site has got me interested in modelling these unusual subjects from an almost-forgotten campaign.
Thanks in advance
Don

This just came to mind last night when this thread had me thinking about RN gunboats and Monitors . If you do go to the IWM there is a model there you must see :thumbs_up_1:

. If you enter and go across the front lobby go up the stairs and take a left onto the walkway that goes around the outside of the open court. You should find a model just a few display cases down of either a Gunboat or a small Monitor. Can you believe I spent a half an hour looking at it on my last visit and now I can't remember which it was :mad_1:

. Either an insect class or one of the small WWI Monitor classes. In anycase, this model is really great, you will want to see it :big_grin:

Bob B.

JIM BAUMANN · **Posted:** Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:11 pm

an insect class boat--I have a photo or two(probably not high quality)-I was there a couple of years ago...

Tara

JIM B

bengtsson · **Posted:** Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:37 pm

JIM BAUMANN wrote:

an insect class boat--I have a photo or two(probably not high quality)-I was there a couple of years ago...

Tara

JIM B

Thanks for jogging my memory :wave_1:

I suffered from information overload my last visit, what with 4 days in the photo dept and breaks taken looking around the museum and catching lunch and coffee there.
I did admire that model, what a fine piece of work :smallsmile:

. The reason I spent so much time looking it over was because of my Yangtze Gunboat interest. The RN Insect class were really the dreadnoughts of the Yangtze carrying those 6in guns. When forced to use them, the RN made a deep impression on warlords, bandits and communists.

Bob B.

JIM BAUMANN · **Posted:** Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:51 pm

Ha--gunboats eh!

I have a most interesting book on the FRENCH Yangtze gunboats--fascinating stuff and profusely illustrated

now on special offer at only 20 euros

http://www.marines-editions.fr/boutique ... ag=1&num=2

My interest stems from the building of Panay
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

bengtsson · **Posted:** Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:58 pm

When I was a kid it was the story of the Japanese attack on Panay that got my interest up. The US Movie The Sand Pebbles and the book Yangtze Patrol by Kemp Tolley really got me going. Since then I've tracked down all I can find on the Gunboats of the Yangtze. I have often thought of getting that French book. At 20 Euros I should go for it! Sad to say the Euro is beating the crap out of the Dollar and so the price is not nearly as cheap as it might have been :mad_1:

Nice job on the Panay by the way :wave_1:

Any Insect class models out there?

Bob B.

finnfan · **Posted:** Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:46 am

I visited the IWM photo archive yesterday and found a great deal of interest to help with this project. While browsing, I noted the negative numbers of all the M series monitors, so if anyone is interested in these vessels, I may be able to help. What did puzzle me was that there was only one picture of an M series ( M19) in a dazzle scheme, and then just the upperworks. I wonder where the restorers got the scheme for the current paint work on M33 at Portsmouth?

Thanks for the tip about the gunboat model. It is of HMS Mantis and is excellent, and thanks also for giving me the push to get off my butt and do the visit I have been promising myself for ages.

There were so many pictures that suggested a diorama that the problem now is deciding which one to go with. ……and paying for all the prints I ordered.

JIM BAUMANN · **Posted:** Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:19 am

Excellent news!

here is the thread I posted a while back...

http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/vie ... ght=dazzle

the restorers based the dazzle scheme of that monitor on some private photos that were submitted

I reproduce a photo of a photo here:

finnfan · **Posted:** Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:27 pm

Thanks for the picture of M33. Since my last post I have found a couple of pictures of M16 in a scheme similar to the one M33 now wears. Which leads me on to ask about a booklet which I believe was published on M33. When I was last at the RN Museum at Portsmouth I enquired about it and the shop staff told me they do receive occasional enquiries for it, but knew of no plans to re-print - surprising when so many visitors now see M33 and would like to know more. However, does anyone know of a source for this booklet? and who was the author? as I am drawing blanks with searches from the usual sellers.

Thanks in advance

Don

Pieter · **Joined:** Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:19 am **Posts:** 1548

PT dockyard does an Insect class wargaming model in 1/600. It gives you the basic shapes for a WW2 insect. Should not be too diffucult to make a China version out of this kit.

bengtsson wrote:

W
Nice job on the Panay by the way :wave_1:

Any Insect class models out there?

Bob B.

PT Dockyard · **Posted:** Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:07 pm

I am planning a big expansion of my RCW craft this fall. I already do the M-class with the 6" gins and will be doing
M-Class w/7.5"
M-Class w/Triple 4"
Dance Class MS
Humber
Bolshevik gunboats, armed barges and tugs
1919 version of the Insect class
Armored CMBs
Many smaller gunboats

Many more planned

Contact me offline at
ptdockyard@yahoo.com.

Dave G.
The PT Dockyard
http://ptdockyard.tripod.com

gs · **Posted:** Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:00 am

You probably know about the following website, but if you haven't seen it before, you should check it out. A lot of interesting period photos of China.

http://www.hmsfalcon.com/index.htm

bengtsson · **Posted:** Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:22 pm

gs wrote:

You probably know about the following website, but if you haven't seen it before, you should check it out. A lot of interesting period photos of China.

http://www.hmsfalcon.com/index.htm

Much thanks :wave_1:

, this is a goldmine for someone interested in the Royal Navy on the Yangtze river. That's me :woo_hoo:

. Great photos, really classic.

Bob B.

PT Dockyard · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:44 pm

I just released fourteen more Russian Civil War craft in 1/600. The Insect class is one of them

Dave G
The PT Dockyard
http://www.ptdockyard.com

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North Russia 1919

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