The Ship Model Forum

(Continued from previous post)

The waterlines were then masked off and the hull bottoms painted, two black, one anti-fouling red for a contrast.

A few pics of the completed boats:-











Hope you like them.

As usual, all comments welcomed.

Thanks for taking the time to have a look at my humble offering!

Cheers, Jabb

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

Looking sweet!!!

_________________
Thomas E. Johnson

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThomasEJohnson

Very nice boats! Really little models in their own right.

I like the clean and sharp demarcation between upper and lower parts of the hull, and the brass rim around the portholes works great!
If you like, you can simulate the glass in them with Kristal Klear?
In these enlarged photographs, I can see that the deck color is creeping up on some of the vertical surfaces however. Maybe you can still retouch this easily with a sharp brush?

Cheers,

Marijn

Thanks for feedback guys, yes Marijn, I have noticed a couple of places where a touch-up is required, but with the naked eye, other than the splodge on the cabin, they look absolutely fine. I also notice one of the cabin handles is detached.

Update on the fore-deck to come.

Thanks for looking!

Cheers, Jabb

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

Quick update on funnels and searchlights, then I will tell you about detailing the foredeck etc

According to Trumpeters instructions, there are two gratings, parts F20 & F21, which fit along the side of the fore funnel. There is no 'F' sprue supplied in the kit! Fortunately WEM supply both early and late Wireless Telephone etchings which have a nice diamond pattern, just right for a grating. And, bonus, they are EXACTLY the right length! I cut the edges off the smaller, earlier version, and fortunately had some left-over brackets from my previous build so attached them to the bottom.



And fitted.



I think that looks quite effective. I will fit a ladder to the end once the funnel is in position.

I have also completed the searchlights with the lenses and clear nail varnish.



They are fitted with 2mm jewels, I received the 1.5mm ones today so will now be able to complete the 24" searchlights.

Onto the next stage! I prepp'ed the superdeck with primer and the superstructure colour (Tamiya XF19 Sky Grey). I removed all the little bits and bobs from the Artwox deck for the capstains etc, however I left the bits for the skylights in place, for two reasons, firstly, the holes do not quite match the size and shape of the etched skylights, and secondly, I am leaving some of the hatches open.



I have seen models of this ship with the gun deck finished with either a wood deck or with corticine. Artwox supply the wooden deck, Pontos don't, but the clincher for me is that the kit has a moulded wooden deck finish. 2-1 in favour of wood, here it is, ready to be fitted.



The skylight areas were blacked out with matt black paint. I went over the edge on one, left it to dry and carefully scraped the area clean with a sharp blade and it came up perfectly.



The etch was quite a challenge to bend as it has a very narrow centre section. The issue is that the ends are in the way if you use a folding machine. I did the first one OK with the end of a blade used as the hard edge, but tried to do the ends first on the second one. Disaster!, it took ages to sort out, but they ended up not looking too bad. The Pontos exterior detail on the hatches is better than WEM, but the WEM hatch interior finish is far superior, so another mix and match.



I also fabricated the upper breakwater with the tiny support brackets whilst still attached to the fret, much easier to handle when the fret acts as a third hand and holds it steady for you.



You can see here the deck furniture attached and the effect of the blacked out skylights.



It was at this stage that I looked at some of the on-line pictures of the ship, and discovered that the capstans were painted black with white detailing, so out with the hairy stick and I rectified that slight error.



I will fit the first upper deck level in the next post.

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

The next deck level attaches at the front end and the rear is supported by a multitude of tiny plastic columns. I tried dry-fitting and it didn't look good. The gap at the front is quite large so I sanded away the locating tabs and retried it - much better!



It will still require a bit of work, but a lot less than before!



The sprues on which the columns are attached are slightly mis-cast and every part on them suffers from a mould line and needs cleaning-up. With the fitting of the wooden floor, I also felt that the fit may not be perfect. I also thought it looked quite flimsy so I decided to strengthen, refine and ensure that it fitted correctly and level.

I decided to replace the plastic columns with brass tubing. The locating holes in the superdeck were drilled through and rod cut overlength. It took quite a considerable amount of time, test fitting everything repeatedly to ensure that the assembly would be straightforward once tackled. The rods were eventually attached to the bottom of the upper deck -



and this was then carefully fitted to the lower deck and left for a while to allow the CA a chance to harden and set.



Once set the construction continued -



And finally just waiting to be pushed down. The brass rods were glued into the holes from the bottom.



Still plenty more to do on this bit. Another update soon.

Thanks for looking and for the support I'm getting, makes it worthwhile to continue this thread.

As usual, comments, tips and critique welcomed.

Cheers, Jabb

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

Quick update on the super-deck and an experiment on the turrets that turns out to be just what I wanted.

The first deck level was stuck into position as per the previous post, CA was spread around the protruding brass rod underneath.



Likewise the rear.



The rear section only had two columns, you can see them in here.



I have now finished off the front joint that I had issues with in the previous post, here it is in all it's glory -



So thats basically the first level completed.



but what I have done is fitted the rigging loops into position, both for the funnel stays and the flag halyards. I put them in the original position according to the Kagero plan, but didn't realise they moved when the centre boats were swung from lateral to lengthways. The holes will be filled and re-painted next time the air-brush comes out to play!



I have just started the etch bending and prep for the next level and will report on that next time. Also to be included is another conflict between the Pontos, WEM and Trumpeter etch detail, with a surprise result!

Turrets (again).

In the splendid ATOS book, there is a section which details the alterations, additions and renewals that were made at the various re-fits that the ship underwent at different locations throughout the UK and elsewhere. One of the lines that intrigued me reads:-

1917 : deflection scales painted on "A" and "Y"

What were they? What did they look like? As the model of the ship is dated 1918, whatever they are, they are on the ship and are a must to be modelled.

I carried out an interweb trawl and found the answer. They were numbers and stripes painted onto the front and rear turrets to give an indication of the angle at which the turrets were trained to face an enemy ship, making that information obvious to other ships in the flotilla. I managed to find a very indistinct and long distance shot of the Dreadnought which does show some markings on the front and rear turrets, but with no detail what-so-ever! What I did come across was a reasonably good quality picture of these scales painted on the forward turret of HMAS Australia.

Again I trawled the net and managed to obtain some dry and wet decals which were a reasonable match for the type-face I was looking for, with a view to replicating these on the model.

Two of the turrets were painted in a dark grey, they may have been black but very dark grey will look better on the model. I sprayed them with 'Future' and allowed that to dry. A strip of masking tape was stuck to the turret to give a level for the numbers and this is how it looked after a couple of numbers had been added.



The numbers are tiny, you can see one at the back of the turret still attached to the backing here.



I carried on with the numbering to the rear edge of the turret, the back may have been numbered as well, but I was unable to find evidence for or against. I decided to leave the rear blank! The lines were cut from a wet decal sheet and cut over-long to allow correct placement, the short lines were cut to 2mm in length!



Once dry, the tops were nicked and removed. Once both sides are done I will give another quick coat of Future to seal them in. I think they look quite good, I haven't seen them on a model before, so now you know how to do it. According to Wiki a lot of WW1 ships had them.



You can also see in this pic the replication of the blast-bags now painted.

If anyone is interested I can let them know the suppliers and product codes for the items I used.

Thanks for taking the time to look and, as usual, all comments, tips and ideas welcome.

Thanks for looking.

Cheers, Jabb

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

I mentioned in the last post about a surprise result! Here it is.

On the super-deck there are a couple of coal scuttle covers for some reason? I would have thought they would all have been on the main deck, just shows I'm not a ship designer!

I have a choice of three different renditions so now to choose which covers to use. I separated one of each from WEM, Pontos and the kit etch.



On the left WEM, looks like a dustbin lid (trash can in US-speak), the centre one is from Pontos, and the other from Trumpeter. The kit supplied one has a far greater level of detail, so, a big surprise, TRUMPETER wins this battle of the etch, hands down. To the naked eye the difference is even more obvious!


The fore-mast construction, or - 'Are you REALLY going to do that'.

Anyone who has used a Pontos product, or indeed considered one of their kits, will probably be aware that they supply a brass mast set in their kits, which to me, is one of the highlights of the build. But, and its a big but, how the Sam Hill do you put the thing together?

On the Dreadnought, the fore-mast is a tripod which I test fitted a number of times and all it wants to do is fall over. As soon as you introduce one of the legs, over she goes!. I tried to hold it in place with some masking tape, no success, I even tried a section of copper wire to secure the mast in an upright position.



This sort of worked so I applied some CA, left it for a while to dry and removed it from the deck - in three bits. I then made-up the kit plastic parts and then cleaned-up and re-glued the brass parts to match that. Left it to harden, tried to fit to the ship, and yet again it dis-assembled itself back to the basic components???

I had in the back of my mind, a plan to construct this part, but was quite reluctant to try it as I thought it may end-up damaging the model beyond repair. Faint heart never won fair lady, so here we go.

As I have already mentioned, I am no great lover of mixing power tools and plastic kits as I am always weary of the effects of friction, but I'm going WAY beyond that here! I will let the pictures do there own talking!






Yes - I soldered the mast tripod - whilst in place - on a plastic kit! And I am pleased to report, as you can see - it worked! I used a butane powered blow-torch, superb!




I gingerly removed the mast from the kit, expecting it to fall apart but -




I was quite surprised how easy it was, and I will certainly use this method again. The only worry was, how well would the brass rod conduct the heat down to the fragile plastic parts! Obviously not well enough - phew!

Has anyone else used this method?

Once again, thanks for looking.

Comments.... etc.

Cheers, Jabb

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

See, Jabb, i think i told you in a previous post that you CAN use the Pontos masts with Trump kit.
The main mast also works well with a bit of "tinkering". Like your method with the fore mast
tripod. Used a different method for bracing the three units together, (i think the 1907 kit is
slightly different) , but your solution nailed the problem.
Tim.

PS _ Double checked using your photos, the two kits are certainly different in many ways.
This may be of interest for modelers building the 1907 version.

Thanks Tim, I was slightly worried about the masts as I think they are a major enhancement. I am currently working on the starfish and will report accordingly. Re the tripod, I sat and pondered about that for a long time, must have set it into position 40-50 times and it just would not sit right whatever I tried. That white tape is Tamiya wavy line masking tape, and I used that as I thought if there is any heat transfer down the legs, it would be obvious in the plastic tape deforming or distorting before it hit the plastic of the model. I think if i had used a conventional soldering IRON, it would have heated them a lot more than using the blow-torch method.



Interesting conclusion, I might look into that, and I wonder where the 1915 version fits?

Cheers, Jabb

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

Jabb, you've done really amazing works there! The mast looks great, too. You seem to have the skill to solder it, right?
It is really difficult and time consuming to get just one boat this size detailed and painted, but well, I think you made them easily..
Thanks for sharing!
Aur

_________________
On the way:
1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!

Thanks Aur! Detailing and painting the boats gave me a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction, they turned out more or less as I planned. As far as 'the skill to solder', that was my first real attempt.

I followed this:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBji-Oz3J7E

from Pauls' excellent series on Youtube, 'Thinking outside the Box'. But as I said, used a butane heat gun instead of an iron. The metal heats up much quicker that way, with less likelihood of heat transfer down the legs to the plastic.

It was now time to start to construct the fore-mast. WEM provide the etch for the 1915 'starfish', together with all the brackets etc, I did not look at the kit etch as that fits onto the bottom of the plastic fore-top, and as the Pontos kit is for the 1907 fit, I did not bother to inspect that at all.

The 'fish is made-up of 15 individual pieces and actually fits together quite easily.





As I have already mentioned, I am really looking forward to doing the rigging and have it all planned out. As an aside, the mast had, by this date, been reduced in height, but I am going to match the kit supplied item with the Pontos mast as I think it looks better!

I checked for where the rig attaches to the 'fish and cut-off and bent up the loops preparatory to fitting.



I determined that two attachment loops are required at each point of the star. The loops were glued into place.



I test fitted the now completed starfish to the top of the mast, nice and tight, level from all angles - superb!

It was at this stage that I checked the Pontos instructions and it then dawned on me that there was no fitting hole for the lower signal yardarm. I inspected the Pontos etch and found that the brackets on the earlier version of starfish are exactly the same as the later ones and would have been a direct replacement for the WEM brackets, and they are much superior as far as detail goes -

AND - the Pontos brackets have nice rigging loops included!!!!!!!

Fortunately I managed to remove the front brackets quite easily, cleaned the area up and fitted the Pontos brackets.



You can just see the loops at the ends -



Anyone carrying out a similar build to this should be aware and, unlike me - THINK!

I also had to enlarge the hole in the WEM starfish for the brass fore-mast to fit through and the mast then fits into a hole in the Pontos etch.



You can see the difference in size as I have just started to drill out the hole.

Once that was done and everything glued and set, I couldn't resist a quick test fit to see how it looks.



Coming on nicely!

Thanks for the comments, I find them very encouraging, keep them coming. And if anyone wants a deeper explanation of anything I have done, or can suggest alternative methods, please let me know.

Thanks for looking.

Cheers, Jabb.

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

Just a quick update today, had a disaster!

Constructed the Pontos fore-mast, added the WEM foot-ropes, took loads of pictures, phone went on the blink and had to do a complete restore. Lost all the pics! Heigh-ho!

Where are we - the chart-room, choice of Pontos or WEM, chose the Pontos, primed and painted it, then glazed with clear nail-varnish. Added the rest of the wooden decks.

The WEM effort is on the left, just a bit more detail in the window surrounds of the Pontos one, so used that.



Here are the decks with the wood fitted



And here is the cabin with the windows filled in. I use the tip of a cocktail stick to drag the varnish across the gap.





I also did the same with the admirals cabin windows, although they are not as clear in this pic!



Progress on the hull where I have also fitted the main wooden deck, the hull has had its layers of paint, but I leave it in the masking so as not to get the paintwork marked or damaged.





I made up the mast from the parts supplied, an absolute joy to do. It fits together perfectly, there are stays provided with rigging loops in position, when you push the spar down the main mast, it only goes so far due to a ridge in the turning, and it is in EXACTLY the right position.

I used the WEM foot-ropes, carefully folded the top so it was at 90 degrees to the ropes themselves for two reasons, it looks neater and it gives a larger area for the glue to grip. This is a pic of the mast test fitted.



Hope you all had a better day than me!

Thanks for looking, as usual, comments etc.......

Cheers, Jabb

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

1st class work so far Jabberwock, looking forward to more!

_________________
-Jason Channell

Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck

Thank you kindly Jason, I am having an absolute blast with this kit, really enjoying it. The Pontos detailing kit is exquisitely etched and a better quality of brass seems to have been used over the WEM offering. Some of WEMs' parts are almost a match, but overall I believe Pontos have the slight edge.

So here's more!

I am in the process of prepping stuff for priming and painting, one of the items that needs constructing is the main-mast and the struts. It is even more difficult than the fore-mast to arrange the struts in the right position (and keep them aligned!), AND the plastic items need integrating into the construction, AND the distance from where the three struts connect to the plastic parts is far less than the fore-mast.

I tinned the three metal parts -



I am using a liquid flux and a medium temperature solder which comes as a stick from which a small amount is sliced off with a knife and placed in position on the painted-on flux. The butane filled blow-torch is played across the area until the solder melts. Once tinned, the solder can be filed down until just a thin layer remains.

I then made-up the base and struts, drilled the deck to accept the over-length struts, put them in the correct position on the deck, painted a small patch of flux and placed a small sliver of solder in position, took a deep breath, fired-up the torch and hit it with the heat.



As you can see, the heat caused a slight distortion in the cover. The real cover was made of canvas and a moment in time is captured as you view the model, the wind blew just enough to ripple the roof. (That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!)



Here is the completed mast and base, stuck down on a McCoffee stirrer from a well known burger establishment, waiting patiently in the queue for the paint-shop.



The fore-mast and struts will also need to go to the paint-shop, so they needed finishing off. Guard rails from the Pontos kit were bent and attached to the old searchlight platform, the new searchlight platforms and supports were attached in the correct positions on the mast legs after careful perusal of the Roberts AOTS book.



I also noticed from the plans that the platforms had guard-rails fitted. I checked the kit and both sets of etch, nothing at all is provided. Another bit of detailing then! I looked at the etch and found what I needed is provided by WEM, it should be used on the Admirals walkway which had been replaced by 1918 so for this kit was redundant. Sections of the correct length were cut off, bent and attached.

I use a base of expanded polystyrene for bending, in this case I used a pin-chuck as a former -



and then the bending tool is pushed down and rotated.




Because the expanded polystyrene is quite soft, it forms circles quite easily.



The railings were attached as you see here.



The rear funnel-stays are attached to the legs so rigging loops were glued in position.



I thought that was it, but looking at the photos and this post, there are stays between the legs and the mast, I will need to fabricate them from either plastic rod/stretched sprue or brass rod. MORE detailing!

As usual, thanks for taking time-out to look at what I'm doing, I hope that by showing you some of the methods I am using here, someone will pick up an alternative or even better method of tackling something on their own kit.

Any comments welcomed.

Cheers, Jabb

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

Great work, Jabb!

Aop

_________________
On the way:
--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!

Thanks for your interest and comments, encouraging!

Onwards and upwards.

The completed mast assemblies have been primed and coloured so on to the part of the build that I have been really looking forward to - rigging. I have read posts on here and other forums from modellers who dread carrying out this task. I have thought long and hard about this section, having carried out numerous tests with spare sprue, glues, paints etc., to try and develop a satisfactory method which is easy to plan, undertake and complete.

See what you think.

I have studied the rigging of the ship quite carefully and determined the various attachment points for the wires and ropes, and whilst constructing various sections of the kit have integrated rigging loops into the build. Pontos supply various attachment points as already mentioned.

The loops are these, and 0.3mm ones where two or more threads are required.



The threads I have obtained are the well known 'caenis' fishing fly-tying thread. For those who don't know what this is, it is a very thin, strong thread designed for tying extremely small game-fish (Trout, Salmon etc.) fishing flies on size 16 and smaller hooks. The other reel is the standard, smallest diameter thread. The two reels together cost less than £5.00 UK.



Here are the two threads next to each other as a comparison. I plan to use the thinner thread for the signal halyards and funnel stays.



The mast has some attachment points supplied by Pontos (marked in red) and the NS loops in black. There are a couple of loops glued to the rear of the lower spar which are not visible in this view.



I will continue in another post due to the number of photos included.

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

Continued.

The two threads have different properties, the caenis thread when cut has and maintains a nice sharp end. The normal thread when cut, immediately tends to unravel, absolutely no use what-so-ever for threading through a tiny eye. To counteract this, I dip the end 15mm or so into CA. Once left to dry, when cut it then has a sharp end. If you look at the end of the thicker thread in the previous post you can see how ragged it is. The reason for the 15mm length is it allows you to cut off the point if it starts to unravel whilst rigging and then will give you a nice new point. You can just see the tiny cut-off end here -



We now need to determine the path of the rig, obviously on the real ship, each line was an individual length, for ease of construction here, one line will form 2, 3 or more 'runs'.

The left-side rear static rig is made-up of four runs, but is made from one length of thread. Initially inserted at the rear loop of the two loops at the rear of the 'starfish', it then goes to the top mounting point, down to the lower yard-arm, then up to the lower mast mount and back down to the inner starfish loop. The two ends are then pulled tight and secured with CA.



The right-side rear was completed as above.



And here you can see the loops glued to the rear of the yard.



That's the rear completed, now for the front.

Just the same, determine a route for the longest run that you can, and again this one starts at the front leg of the starfish, goes up to the lower mount, as seen here -



The thread is then passed around the mast and through the other side of the mount, down to the right-hand side of the 'fish, through the second hole, then back up to the top mount, around the mast again, and back down to the open loop remaining, back where you started.



The entire static rig of the fore-mast has now been completed with three, yes THREE, individual lengths of thread.

Now for some detail. One of the experiments I carried out was to represent the block and tackle on the rigging.

I tried small dabs of paint, a tiny drop of PVA glue dotted on, left to dry and then painted black. I then tried a mix of PVA, black paint and water. This ultimately was the easiest to use and gave an acceptable block!

Here is a close-up of the top mount with blocks painted on -



And here is a view of the loops ready for the signal lanyards to be attached to once the mast is permanently attached to the model.



I think I have fulfilled my initial remit, it was pre-planned by attaching the loops in the right places during construction, by studying the path of the thread, it was relatively easy to pass the three lengths through the right loops and it took about two hours to do, and a fair amount of that time was dedicated to clearing out one of the holes which had been blocked by paint.

Here are the completed views front and rear -





I know that your model will be different from this one, but I think this simplifies what some see as an onerous task. It was really enjoyable and has given me a great deal of satisfaction.

I hope this helps just one modeller complete their rigging without stress or strain.

If you have any comments or can see a way of making this even simpler, let me know.

Thanks for taking the time to look at the thread.

Cheers, Jabb

_________________
HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

Awesome mast work. Absolutely! Looking forward to seeing her done.