The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:42 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Tsarist Navy GANGUT 1888
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 4544
Location: Nr Southampton England
Hello all-- :wave_1:

due to outrageous work commitment this year .... I have done rather less model-making than is usual..

alas I have no leverage against my boss for unfair treatment, difficult clients and extremely long hours...=> as it is my own business !

With my build of the SMS Vulkan

Attachment:
gangut 079.jpg
gangut 079.jpg [ 160.98 KiB | Viewed 2426 times ]


viewtopic.php?f=59&t=154091


having a little rest ( still slowly building the 2 x tugboats)

I thought a short sharp ( easy) build would be in order--in my preferred scale of 1/700--of a suitably unusual subject


Wikipedia gives a potted history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_co ... %281888%29

and Steve Backer did a fine review of the kit and historical round-up at Steelnavy.com back in 2006 of the kit-in-box

http://www.steelnavy.com/CombrigGangut.htm

a pretty much out-of-the-box- build here

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

My German modelchum Rainer Michalek did a pretty good job of portraying the ship in her winter-berth

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I seem unable to find any views of the vessel from astern, only one very unhelpful on-deck photo, a plan of seemingly dimensional accuracy but lightly dubious in actual detail when compared to photos

Attachment:
011.jpg
011.jpg [ 184.15 KiB | Viewed 2426 times ]






some side on photos-- high quality and high res views of the ship in her winter berth and at Reval--both 3/4 port bow- very useful - but different fits, colouring of vents an so forth in differing era
( within her very short lifespan!)



..


Attachments:
gangut port bow small.jpg
gangut port bow small.jpg [ 121.79 KiB | Viewed 2426 times ]
in the ice.jpg
in the ice.jpg [ 199.36 KiB | Viewed 2426 times ]

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 2200
Location: New Orleans, LA
Fantastic! I love following your builds.

_________________
- Chris


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 10728
Location: Calgary, AB/Surrey, B.C., Canada
You've probably seen them, but if not, there are a few more pics on the Navsource.narod site: http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/01/010/index.html

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 4544
Location: Nr Southampton England
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Therefore much of the actual sub-boatdeck and main weatherdeck layout is extrapolated guess-work from the photos--more of that later.

According to the plans--the side-on stern profile had a light fwd slope--this was built up and carved.

The square hatches in the upper hull were ( too! ) subtly rendered--but somewhat crude in places.

Attachment:
gangut 006.jpg
gangut 006.jpg [ 79.88 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


So as to get some regularity I overlaid these with suitable ladderstock cut down.


Attachment:
gangut 007.jpg
gangut 007.jpg [ 125.31 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


Large skylight was overlaid with North Star PE small skylight window strip--this sharpened it up.

Attachment:
gangut 001.jpg
gangut 001.jpg [ 171.16 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 002.jpg
gangut 002.jpg [ 165.25 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]




the aft skylights were created using small PE ( WEM Askold and other mesh)


Attachment:
gangut 003.jpg
gangut 003.jpg [ 225.33 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]



Attachment:
gangut 005.jpg
gangut 005.jpg [ 148.41 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


The midships articulated davits needed slots to be able to operate in real life...

Attachment:
gangut 012.jpg
gangut 012.jpg [ 177.52 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]



Attachment:
gangut 010.jpg
gangut 010.jpg [ 99.29 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


The kit cast boat deck was a chunky affair cast on a thick wafer

I cut out the apertures and started to address the malformed pilothouse and aft control using Norths Star PE Russian doors
this started to look more akin to the bits of photos I could see

Attachment:
gangut 013.jpg
gangut 013.jpg [ 58.74 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 016.jpg
gangut 016.jpg [ 255.21 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 014.jpg
gangut 014.jpg [ 275.31 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


A decent PE piece here would have been (an answer to prayers--!) :big_grin:

I could also have built it up in pieces in metal ( I was wary of warping styrene)

but due to the flimsy support for the deck I preferred something that had a degree of athwarthships rigidity

( this; probably ;...wrong decision on my part would come to cause an issue of three later in the build -- ...!)


The deck subsequently had all the edges pared down with a sharp blade to give the appearance of a thinner structure when viewed side-on

The deck supports where spaced and drilled--installing drawn ( for straightness ) brass wire into the holes and snipped off using a height gauge of styrene strip

Attachment:
gangut 021.jpg
gangut 021.jpg [ 117.3 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 020.jpg
gangut 020.jpg [ 94.49 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 019.jpg
gangut 019.jpg [ 111.39 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]




the upper edges of the main deck bulkhead had a strake added in copper wire

Attachment:
gangut 022.jpg
gangut 022.jpg [ 90.42 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 023.jpg
gangut 023.jpg [ 118.67 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 024.jpg
gangut 024.jpg [ 95.69 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 025.jpg
gangut 025.jpg [ 93.92 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]




Boat deck, boiler-room vents and ( modified ) funnel installed



Attachment:
gangut 026.jpg
gangut 026.jpg [ 97.6 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 027.jpg
gangut 027.jpg [ 98.21 KiB | Viewed 2394 times ]



next post will deal with some of the platforms...

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 4544
Location: Nr Southampton England
The vents were thinned at the mouths, and were drilled through up from underneath so as to create the vent tube hole

Attachment:
gangut 074.jpg
gangut 074.jpg [ 104.06 KiB | Viewed 2389 times ]



The distinctive and large platforms were made of brass circles and a brass strip, formed into a circle using a small metal tube on a soft paper pad and simply dropped dropped 'on'

( lots of fiddly trial and error to obtain exact size !!)

Attachment:
gangut 028.jpg
gangut 028.jpg [ 64.35 KiB | Viewed 2393 times ]


The lower platform had the apertures for the QF guns created by adding on top of the lower ' wall'' a piece of suitable PE ladder-stock.
which had the alternate apertures in-filled with white glue--and then painted

Attachment:
targa 027.jpg
targa 027.jpg [ 106.56 KiB | Viewed 2389 times ]


Attachment:
targa 021.jpg
targa 021.jpg [ 175.3 KiB | Viewed 2393 times ]


The undersides of the platforms had the supporting braces added using bent pieces of thin copper wire, tacked on with matt varnish--backed up with CA and the aperture in-filled with white glue and then painted.

Attachment:
gangut 067.jpg
gangut 067.jpg [ 76.88 KiB | Viewed 2389 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 069.jpg
gangut 069.jpg [ 94.81 KiB | Viewed 2389 times ]



The distinctive white surround portholes were made by countersinking the porthole holes with a larger drill and dropping in a previoulsy painted brass porthole surround ( North Star PE) glued with matt varnish, then a small droplet of CA added afterwards on the end of one of our Cats whiskers ( dropped -not plucked!!!! )

Attachment:
gangut 080.jpg
gangut 080.jpg [ 95 KiB | Viewed 2389 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 087.jpg
gangut 087.jpg [ 106.02 KiB | Viewed 2389 times ]


Attachment:
gangut 088.jpg
gangut 088.jpg [ 104.71 KiB | Viewed 2389 times ]



Davits and a couple of boats added--but from here-on the trouble starts. :Mad_6: :scratch:

Attachment:
gangut 089.jpg
gangut 089.jpg [ 93.17 KiB | Viewed 2389 times ]







more report soon as I have solved the issue....


Attachments:
gangut 028.jpg
gangut 028.jpg [ 3 MiB | Viewed 2393 times ]

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:15 am
Posts: 1982
So where do you get those huge hands and push pins to use as props?

Impressive!

The anti torpedo booms are an interesting feature of the era, giving the ships a bit of a galley look.

Cheers: T


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 2200
Location: New Orleans, LA
AH. Why, WHY do I even try to do work in 1/700?

_________________
- Chris


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:56 pm
Posts: 474
Location: Queensland, Australia
It's sooo tiny, yet so beautifully done.

_________________
stash:
1/350 Grosser Kurfurst by ICM
1/350 Seydlitz


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:46 am
Posts: 412
...a "vile ship" ( cit. Wikipedia ) that in your hands will turn out to be a jewell :thumbs_up_1:

_________________
http://lsa-space.blogspot.com/


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:16 pm
Posts: 305
Quote:
The undersides of the platforms had the supporting braces added using bent pieces of thin copper wire, tacked on with matt varnish--backed up with CA and the aperture in-filled with white glue and then painted.

VERY nice trick! I would have spent hours trying to cut out the braces out of styrene, for them to be completely irregular.

As others have said, impressive first class build!

_________________
CV-8: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=153851
DD-436: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=157123
CVL-24 http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=158455


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
Posts: 1512
Location: Belgium
Wonderfull subject, and amazing finesse! Those portholes look fantastic!

A pity (not really) that Rainer Michalek already made her in that winter-scene, since that is just a great setting.
You can still portray her while slowly sinking, with assisting ships taking of her crew? But those portholes shouldn't be under the water though... :)

Good luck with solving the problems (you will manage I'm sure), and good to see you back as your models are always a huge inspiration!

Cheers,

Marijn


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 6592
Location: In the hills of North Jersey
Very nice work, Jim. Glad to see you back in the saddle.

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:19 am
Posts: 1061
...You are probably the victim of that ancient Chinese curse :
"May you have control of your own agenda" -:)
Very nice build so far!
JIM BAUMANN wrote:
Hello all-- :wave_1:


alas I have no leverage against my boss for unfair treatment, difficult clients and extremely long hours...=> as it is my own business !


..


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:50 am
Posts: 344
Location: roma, italia
i think you have the midel russian book on gangut and navarin, with some davits plans, foto and plans of details and sections of the ship.
if you don'y have i can send you offline some scan.
ciao peppe


Attachments:
File comment: cover ov russian book
r001.jpg
r001.jpg [ 133.03 KiB | Viewed 2234 times ]
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 960
Location: Seattle, Wa.
It's always a treat to see what you are going to do next in your tiny builds. I really like the drilled out vents, they look great.

_________________
Gordon


"Then there was one patched-up carrier...."
Vice Admiral Thomas A. Kinkaid


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:13 am 
Hi Jim

As always, a superb and amazing build. You keep my eyes glued to the screen looking your models :worship_1: .

Regards,

Santi


Report this post
Top
  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 4544
Location: Nr Southampton England
Thank you all for your encouraging postings and remarks--and god to see Santi re-appear again! :wave_1:

well....

Combrig rather simplified the boat deck and boat support structure--and much like a lemming I simply followed.. arghh!


==>not having any on deck photos it was rather tricky to decide what really was there--as the plans seemed a bit ambiguous ( at least I thought so...)

Guiseppe ( peppe ) came up trumps --as he has done with past models of mine--thank you again :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:

along with a section and drawing I had not seen --He also has a number of photos of a pretty competent model depicting the wreck of Gangut photographed in a museum

Attachment:
Gusiessepe wreck photo..jpg
Gusiessepe wreck photo..jpg [ 231.14 KiB | Viewed 2098 times ]


This confirmed my suspicions that I was blindly following the kit contents in error... ( arghh!)


especially the midships davit gantry--which I could ascertain in the plans and guess at only in a square on-side elevation photo...

Attachment:
midships davit gantry-guiseepe image.jpg
midships davit gantry-guiseepe image.jpg [ 226.36 KiB | Viewed 2098 times ]


I carefully started to remove the deck--a fraught business--but ultimately successful..

Attachment:
new 003.jpg
new 003.jpg [ 106.39 KiB | Viewed 2098 times ]


Attachment:
new 004.jpg
new 004.jpg [ 134.92 KiB | Viewed 2098 times ]
Attachment:
new 006.jpg
new 006.jpg [ 122.81 KiB | Viewed 2098 times ]


thereafter I started to experiment with how to make the boat bearing beams...
Attachment:
new 007.jpg
new 007.jpg [ 122.87 KiB | Viewed 2098 times ]


I started to cut up PE davist to gain the curve,,,


Attachments:
new 013.jpg
new 013.jpg [ 132.08 KiB | Viewed 2098 times ]

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:08 pm
Posts: 942
You sneaked up on me when I wasn't looking Jim! I guess it's too late now to show you this:
Image
Image ?

_________________
"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 4544
Location: Nr Southampton England
Thank you Darius...

at least now--having removed the entire erroneous boat deck structure...-- I have the re-newed opportunity to make a new more correct large aft skylight
which I made small ( misread the plan arghh! ) ( as it would seem did Kombrig !) ( can now--with benefit of retro-scope--just about see the outline on the plan now--doh!!

Attachment:
01.jpg
01.jpg [ 209.25 KiB | Viewed 2076 times ]


this is hitherto the only photo that gave me a clue to how./ where the davit gantry might be and or function...

Attachment:
davit operating gantry.jpg
davit operating gantry.jpg [ 230.76 KiB | Viewed 2076 times ]


the helpful model makes it clearer
Attachment:
midships davit gantry-guiseepe image.jpg
midships davit gantry-guiseepe image.jpg [ 226.36 KiB | Viewed 2076 times ]



having said that the wreck model is not without its flaws...

to be used as a guide only...

Attachment:
guiseepewreck photo zoom.jpg
guiseepewreck photo zoom.jpg [ 122.72 KiB | Viewed 2076 times ]



here is a photo of the same area--clearly showing that the boat skids do not project outboard of the davit slots in the hull

Attachment:
zoom in of  davit aoerture model error.jpg
zoom in of davit aoerture model error.jpg [ 187.1 KiB | Viewed 2076 times ]



then again the shape of the skid arrangement is not readily apparent in that excerpt of that photos...

more so here...

Attachment:
skids.jpg
skids.jpg [ 140.95 KiB | Viewed 2076 times ]



yet in this photo it appears that the fwd skids may well have been square at their outboard end...?
Attachment:
square skids1..jpg
square skids1..jpg [ 104.07 KiB | Viewed 2067 times ]



which throws up further conundrums... the structures underneath-- were they vaulted (in plate? )

Attachment:
mystery structures.jpg
mystery structures.jpg [ 194.75 KiB | Viewed 2076 times ]




Your drawing looks to be a helpful one... :thumbs_up_1:

have your more? and/ or other drawings? :cool_2: :cool_2:

oh dear... maybe I should simplify-?-cover the area with boats and run...? :big_grin:


JB


Attachments:
square skids..jpg
square skids..jpg [ 30.8 KiB | Viewed 2076 times ]

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 4544
Location: Nr Southampton England
and whilst endlessly asking questions...


what is this?

Attachment:
0111.jpg
0111.jpg [ 161.08 KiB | Viewed 2068 times ]


any ideas

Cheers

JB

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group