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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:08 pm 
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Well, after seeing the newest Pontos detail set I was sold!

So, the basics are the Pontos new Arleigh Burke flight IIA detail set with the Trumpeter Momsen kit.

I was gonna happily already start the kit but someone was clearly angry at me and mixed my orders so getting the kit and detail set has moved into unforseen future!

Let's not let that get us down!

In the meantime here's some of the ideas I've cooked up for this project, so let me know what you think there's still time to fine tune my ideas!

Firstly I wanted to produce that texture of the nonskid surface on the decks.
Some might say that in this scale it might be a bit over, and it prolly it isn't that much in scale but let me know what you think!

So I made it with Mr. Surfacer 500 thinned down to milk and applied with a brush. This is just a test piece mind you!
I made sure I didn't hide the nice tie down details on the etch deck. After about 20 secs of drying I used a Tamiyas zimmerit tool to create the texture.
Then grey brushpainted, some filters, some light washes and pigments later we have this!

Image

Looks ok?


So the other thing I wanted to try out was the weathering of the hull red.

I went to see pictures of ships at drydock untill this image caught my eye!

Image

That looks cool I thought so off we go!

Here's my 1st test!

Image

Ideas? Thoughts? Let me have them!

I go in detail how and what once I actually get to build the thing for real but for now I'm just looking for nice set of reference photos and cooking up more ideas!

Which reminds I did something kinda new for the oil canning effect aswell but a bit more of that later!


Last edited by Koppalakki on Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Brilliant idea using zimmerit tool for the non-skid! Looks fantastic.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:18 pm 
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Last edited by carr on Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:51 pm 
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carr, that is not the USS JOHN S. McCAIN (DDG-56) but is the USS COLE (DDG-67), look at the bow numbers as the 2nd digit is a 7. also the Cole was blast damaged in that area compared to the McCain that was collision damaged further aft but was still able get to the Singapore naval base on her own power.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Hey Carr!

Good points all around, for this test I tried just to see if I could somehow replicate the weathering of the ticonderoga as it pleases my eyes artisticly the most. I actually used pretty yellow buff color and somehow it looks so white in the photo (shitty work bench mobile picture)
even though it's buff. Though the more pronounced banding could be something that I'd definetly add and the test only had buff and dark grey added at the time of the picture.
Also the fact that the ship can weather in unlimited ways has it's problems so in the end I need to pick something I like the most and go with that. Because if I don't like what I see I'm not gonna do it ! :big_grin: :big_grin: :big_grin:

And about the texture, just click the picture, should be pretty big one if you zoom in, the point is that it doesn't pop right into your eye!

And another test shot of the deck

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:31 am 
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I feel your underwater hull weathering looks pretty close to the example you followed, and I think it looks very good indeed! :thumbs_up_1:
I agree that the hull red could be a bit less bright, which to my personal taste would look even better artistically too. Maybe some filters with lighter colors can still tone it down a bit?

I'm not sure how the non-slip surface looks in real life, but I like the way you painted it with dusty and dirty washes. It brings out the texture but not too much. Did you also use some reverse dry brushing (= dry brushing with darker colors)?

Cheers,

Marijn


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:58 am 
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Hey guys,

well about the red and stuff, this is just a scrap model I pulled from my stashes so it was actually painted already I'm just throwing garbage on top of it to see how things work !
So take everything with a grain of salt still and subject to change. The red was also glossy and no coat on top of it so it will show even more bright.

Went through some more photos and came across this.

Image

So there's a clear band of yellowish gunk bellow the waterline.
So tested it by just masking with a tape using dark yellow with an airbrush.

Image

Maybe some detail painting with a brush to break it up a bit.

And a picture of the deck

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:19 am 
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Ok, here's the hull with just light satin coat sprayed on top.

Image

The red becomes a bit faded yes?

For the oil canning this time I just post shaded with lighter color using the masking tape tactic.
Right on top of the old darker base coat. After that 2 filters, blue and light grey, and light satin coat.

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:53 am 
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I'm liking the hull effects. As for the flight deck, I've seen someone attempt the texturing before (On a CVN) and I think they abandoned it. A nicely weathered look is great but the texturing is just over scaled and doesn't look right.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:18 am 
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Last edited by carr on Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:06 pm 
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I am enjoying these test shots immensely already.

Underwater weathering is an area of interest to me.

I do like the direction you are going with this project and I am glad you are going to do a Burke.

I have one of these lined up for someday. Going to steal your ideas! :big_grin:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:12 am 
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So basicly I haven't the slightest idea when I'm gonna get the model and the pontos set :heh:

So more testing and stuff going on.

Big news! I decided to give Tamiyas paint a go ! I used them way way back and had a bit mixed feelings about them. I was a bit nooby at the time so with experience let's see!

Oh boy, if you like flat paints then jesus! Magic ingredient is using the Mr. Color thinner with them!
The airbrush like a charm, and they are strong paints and it would eliminate my need to use any satin/flat coats!

So test number 1!

Basics done, first used hull red to preshade the antifouling part with the tape method, then airbrushed flat red, a mist coat of hull red on top of it.
Black for boot top.
Sky grey for base then lightened with white for the hull plating. So below waterline preshaded and above post shaded.
A bit of heavily thinned over spray with sky grey.

Image

Things to notice, the shade difference is so fine! Usually when using flat acrylics the paint creates an uneven spotty mist. Which is terrible!
Using the tamiya paints with mr color thinner just makes them so nice. They don't dry that much in the tip of the needle. They spray really nicely at low pressure.
I'm genuinly amazed how well they worked!

Next step I do the stuff I already did and see how the paint stands all the weathering process. If it passes then I'm gonna go with Tammis with this project!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:43 am 
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looking really fine like this... I swear already a long time to Tamiya and Gunze (same, but different colors) and tend to add some clear (X-22) to the paint, so that I can avoid an extra layer of clear before decalling, or weathering.

Can you elaborate a bit more about how you achieved this result?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:03 am 
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Hey,

I'll go more in detail later with this build but you can check my previous thread how I did it here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165077&start=20

Only difference is that I did it the other way on the gray part, so just base coat of grey then used the tape masking as above and used lighter shade of grey.
So preshaded with black below waterline and post shaded with light grey above to achieve the oil canning effect!

Also, I found the kit on sale on local hobby shop so let's see Free time hobbys aren't answering my mails atm so if I don't hear anything by tomorrow I'll cancel the whole order and get the Pontos set elsewhere.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Koppalakki wrote:
So basicly I haven't the slightest idea when I'm gonna get the model and the pontos set :heh:

So more testing and stuff going on.

Big news! I decided to give Tamiyas paint a go ! I used them way way back and had a bit mixed feelings about them. I was a bit nooby at the time so with experience let's see!

Oh boy, if you like flat paints then jesus! Magic ingredient is using the Mr. Color thinner with them!
The airbrush like a charm, and they are strong paints and it would eliminate my need to use any satin/flat coats!

So test number 1!

Basics done, first used hull red to preshade the antifouling part with the tape method, then airbrushed flat red, a mist coat of hull red on top of it.
Black for boot top.
Sky grey for base then lightened with white for the hull plating. So below waterline preshaded and above post shaded.
A bit of heavily thinned over spray with sky grey.

Image

Things to notice, the shade difference is so fine! Usually when using flat acrylics the paint creates an uneven spotty mist. Which is terrible!
Using the tamiya paints with mr color thinner just makes them so nice. They don't dry that much in the tip of the needle. They spray really nicely at low pressure.
I'm genuinly amazed how well they worked!

Next step I do the stuff I already did and see how the paint stands all the weathering process. If it passes then I'm gonna go with Tammis with this project!


The post shading looks very good. I think it may be a better result for these monochromatic finishes than the preshading method. Too easy to tone it down too far. I have an unconfirmed suspicion that Hyun Soo Kim may also postshade this effect.

I've been using Tamiya paints for years and have been impressed by them. I will say that I have found them very delicate so your experience seems different than mine.

The Mr. Color thinner is a lacquer thinner, yes? I ask because you are the third person to mention this method and I am overcoming my suspicions of the chemical situation. Perhaps because Tamiya is an alcohol acrylic the lacquer thinner is able to blend with the paint? I have Testors lacquer thinner but I think that is has a different chemical composition. I used to use 91% isopropyl alcohol which worked fine but since I alternate between different types of acrylic paints in my sessions I found that the alcohol gums up the Pollyscale and Vallejo paints that make up the preponderance of my non-Tamiya spraying.

I am interested in learning where you got the idea to use Mr. Color Thinner with Tamiya. It just seems so counter intuitive to me. I wonder if the apparent toughness of your Tamiya coats is because of an interaction between the thinner and the paint. I have to be very careful with my work.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Well I think I've read someone using the Mr. color thinner with Tamiyas. Also the Mr. Hobby line paints are really similar to Tamiyas, so it kinda makes sense.
I remember using Tamiyas own thinner with them and the Mr. color thinner is soooo much better. Also I tried a finnish paint thinner called Dicco Thinner on Mr. Surfacer and it makes it SUPER fine.
I guess I could try even that on Gunzes or Tamiyas paints aswell. Only bad thing it's like super toxic :heh:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Ok I worked quite a lot on the hull. I've put over 30 hours on this which is prolly a new record for just main hull of a DDG!

So basicly everything was removed from the hull and the decks. Details were build with using styrene. Some places were masked and sprayed primer to make the reinforced plates visible.
Also some mr surfacer brushed to create more texture on the anchor bases.

Almost all bilge pump holes etc. were filled with CA and sanded smooth. After that working with reference photos new ones were drilled varying from 0.3 mm to 0.8 mm bits.
And there's quite a lot of those!


Image

Image


Last but not least the bow area was reworked. The fin above the sonar dome was build up using styrene and CA to match the real ship. The base of the forward most anchor was also reshaped.

Here you can see the difference.

Image

All the decks were also glued in and I was surprised how well they fit. I just placed them in and started to run Tamiyas extra thin cement carefully pushing the deck in to keep it level with the outer edge.
After the glue dried edges were sanded starting with 180 grit to 800. Some touch up with CA and coat of Mr surfacer 1000 and sanding with 2000 grit and looks good.

Image

Image

All the details were removed to make room for the Pontos set!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Last edited by carr on Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:20 am 
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Time consuming work, and not very sexy, but so important for top level results! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

carr wrote:
That is some impressively seamless joining of the deck and hull.

Considering how much attention aircraft modellers put into removing seams, I'm often surprised how little attention ship modellers often place in this aspect. Very nice to see it done properly here!

Cheers,

Marijn


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:23 am 
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I used to not care that much about getting rid of seams etc. But I've changed the way I look at things several years ago.
Now I can't even live with the fact that there's a seam hidden under something just the fact that I know it's there is enough!

I have to agree with Marijn about the fact that not enough ship modelers care about taking care of them. The biggest issue I see with it is the fact that many superstructures consist on many levels that are infact seamless but making them so require a lot of planning to pull it off with extensive PE work and so on. So they are easy to make level by level but joining them and getting rid of the seams after for example painting might even harder. Even more so if the painting consist on elaborate preshading techiques!


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