What-If A Big Switcharoo - WWII Essex and Modern Nimitz

[Sr. Gopher]

Well, I just came up with an idea...again. This involves more of the other vessels in the fleet, like the Battleships and Cruisers and their secondary armaments... With bigger carriers on the move, the Escorts need to keep up and have more of a bang for their buck right? Starting in the early 30s, the (my fantasy) Navy will begin development of the automatic 6 inch guns, Like on the Worchesters. My idea is that ships Cruisers and Battleships post- 1939 be armed with these jaw droppers. Atlantas would recieve 5 mounts - 3 fore, 2 aft, Clevelands - 2 port/starboard, 2 fore/aft, Baltimores - same as Clevelands, Post-Dreadnaut BBs recieve 3 port/starboard in a Nelson style arrangement. Other than the Clevelands/Baltimores - which have a lot of free room where the 5 inch mounts are, the Atlantas have most of their guns on the centerline, just above each other. This is because in the Worchesters, there was little room due to the massive storerooms needed to house enough ammo for the huge automatic 6 inch guns. Same goes for the BBs.
For the Destroyers, it would be mix of armaments. On vessels from the Sims to Benson classes: 2 Single 6 inch autos would always be on the main deck both fore and aft. Above each of them, a half shield 5 inch gunhouse. For the Fletchers, the same deal, except where No. 3 mount and where the torpedoes were, a line of three 3 inch gunmounts. These would be the close in weapons for surface targets and frag AA munitions. I've always wondered why they were kept on the 3 oldest BBs, but not anywhere else, other than a handful of Subs. They are halfway between 40mm and 5 inch guns, having an exceptionally fast firing rate, and the ability to shred any aircraft in the sky. I would have 3 of these replace every two torpedo mounts. A powerful, neglected weapon.

[Sr. Gopher]

Just to add to my fire... Back to the Auxilary fleet. It seems that the older generation of ships haas finally aged to the end of their careers by 1944, so vessels such as the 4 pipers and Omahas would be scrapped fight? WRONG!!!!! In my world anyway. The aft section would have all non-gun related equipment torn off and 3,5 and 6 inch guns placed wherever their is room (Omahas) This would make it the good All-purpose ship I could be, reducing the need for modern, specialized vessels to escort the slow convoys. Same for the 4 pipers, except not the 6 inch guns.

But there are others that are still just not needed anymore, like the Saratoga. This beast would have all but six 5 inch guns, 5 40mm Bofors quads/twins, and thirty 20mm Oerlikons removed. Those guns would be for training. I would have the Sara brought into the Great Lakes, and add to the training carriers Wolverine and Sable. This would add onto the training capacity, which can fill up the new carriers.

Wasp and Ranger, time for the official layout. They would have all repair, aircrew, and aviation fuel facilities removed, making way for maybe 10 more aircraft apiece. These carriers, being that they became ferries a long time ago, would also have very few armament, comprising of up to 30 20mm guns on the Wasp, and 20 on the Ranger, as well as a 3 inch gun both fore and aft on each vessel. These would travel with convoys, so there is really no need to have such an overly updated weapons fit.Oh, one more major piece: the island would just be ripped off. No need for the command center or all of those exravagent radar suites right?

Please, anyone, chime in. I want this thread to tread water, but not just based on my ideas. Anyone have something they want to share or questions about?

[Sr. Gopher]

I think it's about time I show off my alternate Yorktown class designs:

The USS Enterprise class APA(L)

The USS Hornet LSD(L) Thoughts anyone?

[indigodave]

Mmmmmmm how about The Final Countdown story? What If the carrier hadn't returned? But instead was available for conversion and backward engineering possibilities? The missile armament couldn't be sustained straight away so maybe fit twin 5" turrets, populate the galleries with 40mm tubs and 20mms. Radars replaced with the latest equipement, maybe CXAM sets. The propulsion would definately be sustainable for the duration of the war. But would they risk the loss of all this tech in one bad battle? Depends how desperate they were. Would make a great model though, I will definately be building one of these from a trumpeter kit I have, flightdeck populated with B25s (I saw pictures of one tested, I think on Shangri La. It had a steerable front wheel) B26s Marauders or Invaders, C47 COD, P38 long range fighters. Could it have launched one way B29s aka Doolittle Raid

When on about massive airgroups I add the caution that apparently the Midways 40's airwing was deemed too large and unwieldly for one platform and was only remedied beecause the size of aircraft were increasing at an alarming (and unsustainable for the UK navy) rate

[indigodave]

B-25 PBJ-1H aboard USS Shangri-la (CV-38)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/konabish/6181409714/

Serious consideration of a navalised B25 It had a tailhook and a steerable nose wheel to enable easier handling round a deck. A squadron of these aboard the Nimitz would be devastating I think

[Seasick]

The Essex class was the biggest that the USA could build at the time. During ww2 steel was to rigid for a ship that big. Steel needed a little more give. The Midway class was built to be very strong and rigid because they didn't have sufficient data on how a ship that size would handle being at sea. Much more steel than was needed. Remember you didn't have big mainframe computers running simulations until the late 1950s early 1960s, you had to overcompensate past your 10% reserve.

[indigodave]

I always feel safer in something over engineered. The Midways lasted longer than others of the era, were more adaptable, could withstand more increases in displacement. The British Audacious class were the same. And after all the DC3/C47 is still around after being in production in the 30's Better than all the smart people and their 10% safety margins, 1 to 3mm of aluminium protecting you from solar radiation in todays planes at 30,000 ft. Fly too often and your sterile ha ha

No doubt todays Steels with their manganese, carbon and many other constituants allow larger ships under less weights but I don't think a Nimitz size carrier would have been impossible to build in the 40s if the drive was there