The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:59 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:53 pm
Posts: 883
I found this design on the Net. Would something like this work, but take out the landing craft well deck, and make a few other changes?

http://img.ph.126.net/c7qs1x1i_SkfgFOo0 ... 839501.gif


Attachments:
639229672126839501.gif
639229672126839501.gif [ 54.53 KiB | Viewed 1712 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:18 pm
Posts: 372
EJM wrote:
I found this design on the Net. Would something like this work, but take out the landing craft well deck, and make a few other changes?

http://img.ph.126.net/c7qs1x1i_SkfgFOo0 ... 839501.gif


For VSTOL or CATOBAR aircraft?

CVM is a confusing term - not sure if this is an amphib or a "CVL".

For VSTOL, the America class is a good guide. I note that you have a lot of aircraft on deck for a gator.

For CATOBAR, it is a no go. You can either need an angled flight deck, or accept a much reduced pace of air operations (and smaller number of aircraft. For ASW purposes the straight deck is likely okay, as the ordnance load, and flight schedule impose very different design needs compared to the more familiar carrier.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 2694
EJM, that won't work with the islands in the middle of flight deck which is also harder to park along side a pier as the captain will not be able to see that pier or any ship that comes along side for refueling.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 392
good day,
I have been doing some re-search on this subject looking at the original design which was an air wing of 50-60 mostly late midway class air frames (f-18, E-2, SH-60's,S-3 AND E-6B'S). So everything retired except the F-18,E-2, S-60H. So if we go with the LHD hull what would be on the deck that an LHD can not handle? If the LHD hull is used can she handle the new cat system on the ford class CVN or would it more feasible to use the Kitty with a smaller Airway and fix up the plant and update the ship?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 3101
MAJOR-B wrote:
good day, ...
Good to hear from you, Major!


MAJOR-B wrote:
If the LHD hull is used can she handle the new cat system on the ford class CVN or would it more feasible to use the Kitty with a smaller Airway and fix up the plant and update the ship?

What do you mean by "...with a smaller Airway..."?

Also, if Kitty Hawk were to be reactivated, I imagine she would be reactivated, she would be fitted to accommodate in addition to the standard wing, the F-35C and B with the F/A-18E/F most in mind. Her propulsion plant would likely get the SLEP prepared for her in 2000 which would have given it another 20 years of service life.

This would take around 24-30 months and likely $3-4 Billion. Is it worth getting a conventionally powered super carrier with a service life of 20+ years for $3-4 Billion in 2-2.5 years? Seeing how a new CVN costs $13+...hells to the YES!!! :woo_hoo:

_________________
Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:57 pm
Posts: 484
I'd have to be concerned at the operational cost of CV-63 today. I think she would be too manpower intensive and require skills which are being reduced fleet wide (BoilerTech, for instance).

A modified LHD hull (be that for a VSTOL or CATOBAR carrier) would be much less operationally expensive, and would have the ability to match systems alreadcy in the fleet support pipeline for parts and training.

The VSTOL version could probably be had for less than that quoted conversion cost, but the engineering design work for a CATOBAR version would drive up program cost.

That might be worth it if the run involved 5 or more carriers of the new type. She's probably need to switch power plants for more electrical generation to support EMALS and other services, and while there is hull space (especially when you eliminate the well deck), you also need to increase fuel stowage, add elevators, and support a larger deck configured for CATOBAR operations.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 392
Sorry was using my phone to answer. In my posting was supposed to state and smaller air wing (dam auto correct). Not sure how our new president is going to build up the Navy but either this platform or the kittyhawk need to be addressed.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 392
Again sorry for a double posting did not want add to possible confusion. So I have two LHD 1 kits one will be used for this project. Basically it will be my version of the LHA 10 which is planned I am going to add the wedge to the side and add the plug. Now for a good name maybe the hancock or Guadalcanal?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 392
So here is my thought add the plug to give the LHD hull the length of the LHA-6 or slightly bigger. Then here is the part I am not sure of. If you do what they did for the Antietam we they add a wedge to deck this could be done on LHA 10 and 11 omit the well deck for extra hangar space and but you still are limited on the where the CAT can go. I would bet that you could only have one CAT due to space of equipment and power. Which again makes the argument for re-activation of Kitty Hawk.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:57 pm
Posts: 484
LHDs have a massive amount of space aboard, much of it open for vehicles/well deck or for berthing.

To extend the hangar, the easy answer is eliminate medical and continue the hangar forward and re-arrange/eliminate some berthing. Remember the Wasp class has racks for about 1200 crew AND almost 2000 Marines. some of the vehicle and well deck space should be used to increase weapons stowage for the airwing as well as fuel tankage.

I'd think two EMALS, maybe a third on the canted deck, would be reasonable - but that generates a power concern. Electrical generation capacity of the ship would have to be increased, although we do have an example powerplant in the DDG-1000 with increased electrical generation capacity which might be a good match.

To be sure, the CV version would require many design changes (why I am sticking with the VSTOL idea first for my limited skills...), and the first ship would probably cost more than a CV-63 reactivation, however the engineering sunk costs of the first CV version would be able to be spread over series production, and the newer vessel would make back most, if not all, of the difference in lower operating cost very quickly.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 392
I think making this ship just became a lot easier. Orange Hobbies has the 1/700 LHA-6 that includes both PE for the ship and air wing.
The Air Wings from what I can tell the kit has the F-35 and AV-8's. I know it resin and not plastic but I think it will make an excellent starting point. Hopefully they will re-release in 1/350.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:57 pm
Posts: 484
https://news.usni.org/2017/02/14/trio-o ... et-of-2030


Each of these discuss concepts to be added to the fleet which match concepts we have discussed here.

Perhaps out threads are being read......


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:57 pm
Posts: 484
And now I need this Island for my project....

(See below, I did a bad job of linking from my phone while at a conference...)


Last edited by SumGui on Mon May 08, 2017 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 392
Link is broken :Mad_5:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:00 pm
Posts: 701
Location: Bowmanville, ON, Canada
I assume it's this one, No extra space for the vehicle ramp and Missile launcher, and more parking spots in front.

Image

Image

_________________
Darren (Admiral Hawk)
In the not so tropical climate of the Great White North.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:53 pm
Posts: 883
Admhawk wrote:
I assume it's this one, No extra space for the vehicle ramp and Missile launcher, and more parking spots in front.


Actually, if you go to this link and view the pics, you can just barely make out a RAM unit and an ESSM octuple launcher at the top/front of the island structure. There might be a CIWS too, but I can't quite tell for sure.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... tries.html


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:45 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Princeton, WV
If you look at the pics on the website. There is one of the Starboard side of the model. You have to look closely or even save the photo and then enlarge it. But there is a Mk29 Sea Sparrow Launcher in front of the Bridge, along with the RAM on top of the bridge area.... And if you look closely or do the save & enlarge thing, with the pic of the port side of the model, you will see a CIWS on top of the bridge area...

Thomas


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 11269
Location: Calgary, AB/Surrey, B.C., Canada
Instead of squinting at the low-rez photos, watch the video - it's in HD and zooms right in on the front of the island:


Attachments:
lha8.JPG
lha8.JPG [ 207.49 KiB | Viewed 1333 times ]

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:45 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Princeton, WV
Here is a link to the usni.org site from last June of the write up about Ingalls being awarded the contract to build LHA-8. It has an artist rendering on the page that better shows the front of the Island. Again, look closely or save the pic then enlarge. You will see the Mk29 Sea Sparrow in front of the bridge, along with the RAM & CIWS on top of the Bridge area...

Thomas

https://news.usni.org/2016/06/30/ingall ... eet-oilers


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CVM?
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:45 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Princeton, WV
Didn't think to look through the video. Much better than the low-rez pics... Thanks Timmy C!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group