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 Post subject: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:51 pm 
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Alright, I recently got the Tamiya 1/350 scale USS Missouri with the idea of a modern Battle wagon. I have a back story in the works for her, but at the moment I have her basic weapons layout, I plan on only one turret number 1 and replacing turret 2 with VLS and have already given the turret 3 and aft deck area a landing pad. This would be new build in the late 1980`s and the back story will explain better, now I a newbie on ships so any advice with weapons and radars would be a great help. Will get back story and pics soon. :wave_1:

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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:53 pm 
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You might want to read the existing thread on modernized Iowas, even though yours appears to be drastically different from the ones discussed: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=46033

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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:34 pm 
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Thanks Timmy I had read that thread over the weekend. Going go read it again :wave_1:

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 Post subject: Modern Iowa back story
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:50 pm 
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Alright guys here is this ships back story. The USS Kentucky BBG-1 ,formerly BB-66, is commissioned in 1961 avoiding the fate of her sister Illinois the scrapyard. Kentucky is rushed into the fleet during the Cuban Missile Crisis and then returned to Norfolk for for minor upgrades in equipment, however she is an one off being the only BBG in the fleet. The Navy saw her potential and convinced congress and JFK that they need 7 more ships, they approve with the last tow being nuclear powered BBGN`s. When the Navy sends New Jersey to Vietnam Kentucky goes with her and the two achieved excellent records. In 1965 USS Montana BBG-2 is commissioned as a nod to the super battleship that never was. In 1967 USS Florida BBG-3 is commissioned and sails around the world in 1968, and goes to Vietnam after NJ and Kentucky are removed in peace talks. USS Tennessee BBG-4 is commissioned in 1969 and serves in the Atlantic Fleet. USSNorth Carolina BBG-5 is commissioned in 1973 ,and the USS Louisiana BBG-6 is commissioned in 1978. USS Georgia BBGN-7 is commissioned in 1986 and is the newest fastest ship in the USN. she has one turret and VLS systems and a large flight ops area in the back half of the ship. USS Alabama BBGN-8 is commissioned in 1990 visually she is nearly identical to BBGN-7. I will be modeling Georgia in her 2014 fit. :big_grin: :wave_1: Questions, comments, suggestions.

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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:03 pm 
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It would be interesting to see a modern Battleship design and not a conversion.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:22 pm 
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It wouldn't be a battleship if it lost its main guns. I have seen too many ideas of removing the turrets and replacing with VLS. One problem - those 16" guns could fire projectiles more powerful than the Harpoon missile. Do you think the US Navy could sink a modern ship today with Harpoon missiles and surface to surface Standard missiles - no way! A direct hit from a single salvo 16" guns would be enough to sink any modern warship in service today.

I think the best modernisation for the Iowa class was what we saw actually happen to them in the 80's with the retention of the 16" guns. A Battleship should be a prime naval asset like an aircraft carrier. Leave all the AAW work to the escorting destroyers and cruisers. Give a Battleship escorts like modern destroyers and cruisers, leave the main guns, the only missiles on the Battleship should be the Tomahawk for land attack at great distance and then it becomes a prime asset. It is vital for shore bombardment and its ability to carry Tomahawk missiles frees up VLS tubes on escorting ships for more AAW missiles.

To me a battleship is all about its guns. It is nothing without its guns. It took considerable expense and firepower to sink these giants. Still today if an Iowa class were in service an enemy would need to dedicate an entire air wing to try and sink it.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:04 am 
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I like your perspective. You have the right thought process toward what a gunship is supposed to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:24 am 
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As Jasonfreeland said, a wholly new design would be cool. I think I would be an easy kit bash bulr between a couple of kits. However, you could do it, and I plan to in the recent future :D

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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Dave, the design for the ship is influenced by the CGN`s. Do you think that is a good idea? Hopefully will get more work done during November. :woo_hoo:

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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:53 pm 
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You know I have been looking at the measurements of these ships as I am remodelling a modern USS New Jersey now into the USS Iowa as I have toured on that ship in LA.

Examples the 61 cell VLS that we see on the Ticonderoga class and aft on the Arleigh Burke class can easily fit on an Iowa. You could dig out a place forward of the main guns (just forward of the two deck access hatches and aft of the anchor controls). You would only invade crew living area but there is room there for a VLS with plenty of room to spare. In addition to that the two darkened grey areas on the extreme port and starboard side just forward of the flight deck but aft of the main guns can easily fit the same VLS tubes with room to spare and again it would only invade crew living and recreation space which could be adequately moved elsewhere. That means at the very least you could house 183 VLS tubes for the likes of Tomahawk missiles. Retain the main guns which still pack a punch greater than what many military powers have today. Flight deck can remain the same for a single helicopter and even an elevator down below deck in the centre line just forward of the flight deck could house a helicopter and only invade crew space. With a modernisation like this then the are the ABLs existed could be redesigned with the latest sensors.

I personally could never imagine a battleship without its main guns. A battleship without its main guns is not worth thinking of.

Power wise in this modern day and age a combined gas and nuclear propulsion like what the Kirov class cruisers have would be idea. Just put in a reactor to give enough power for standard duties and allow it to fire up conventional engines to achieve high speed when required.

It is interesting thinking about keeping battleships in service but it is always the guns that make a battleship a true battleship.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:47 am 
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task force 58 wrote:
Dave, the design for the ship is influenced by the CGN`s. Do you think that is a good idea? Hopefully will get more work done during November. :woo_hoo:

Hey, Task Force.

In my opinion, the conversions of existing hulls has been fully explored, and anything else is just reorganizing previously done stuff (ie, the 4 Iowas, completing the Kentucky as a BBG, etc). What I think you could really explore is, instead of a "modernized" Iowa, instead make a "Modern build" Iowa. The cosmetics of reduced radar cross section, super structure, your choice of radars, missile placement, primary, and secondary battery, I believe are the most interesting. I am on the same page as Sutho being that a "battleship" has a main battery of major caliber weapons arranged in turrets, otherwise it's not a "battleship"; it's a "battle cruiser". Practically, rail guns won't match 16" weight on target, and the ability for 16" guns to hit targets 30-40 miles away with base-bleed guided munitions is very practical for the heavy weight of a single 16" (equal to 500lb+ JDAM). However, if you could swing a secondary battery of rail guns, you might have promise/use for rail guns there.

I would suggest defining a mission that calls for the delivery capability of a "battleship" and design around those missions. Otherwise, you'd be looking at a "large cruiser" or "battle cruiser" instead. The current arrangement of an Iowa is a good place to start, because nearly everything is optomized. However, I disagree with Sutho that the VLS should be in the main hull. The main deck is the only place the main armament of the battleship can be placed. The super structure is large and has a LOT of void areas in it where you can arrange a large number of Mk41 VLS and conventional or phased array radars.

Conventional, combination gas turbine/nuclear, is your choice. The CGNs were just good for keeping up with CVNs, otherwise there was nothing special about them. None of them had any appreciable offensive power. A battleship, however is all offensive. The nuclear plant would be good for providing all the power you may need for speed through water and ability to recharge energy weapons (rail or laser). The best thing to me about nuclear power is that you don't have to refuel the ship's propulsion plant all the time. However, being able to refuel helos makes carrying a lot of JP5 very sensible.

Suggestion:
I am interested to see what you have in mind. Something I have considered for my some-day build is, if you want to have helos on board, I would suggest you look at merging the Vittorio Veneto-class BB's stern with the Iowa's. That would literally consist of elevating Turret 3 a little and dropping the stern by a max of 1 deck. If it's a Montana-sized ship, you could have the CA/CL style helo hangar below decks. Those did not suffer the same rain-penetration problems the CGNs had. I would also assemble the new BB's side armor similarly to how the Vittorio Veneto had theirs arranged in large, removeable/replaceable sections.

Good luck! I look forward to your thoughts. :thumbs_up_1:

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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Thanks, I will try to get a rough sketch of my design done later today.

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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:16 pm 
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task force 58 wrote:
Thanks, I will try to get a rough sketch of my design done later today.

Any news, man?

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 Post subject: Re: Modern Iowa kind of.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:38 pm 
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navydavesof wrote:
task force 58 wrote:
Thanks, I will try to get a rough sketch of my design done later today.

Any news, man?

I've got a few design in AutoCAD that I'm working on, still trying to decided between a few mods based on your ideas. :cool_1:

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