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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:10 pm 
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I can't remember if it was discussed here in this forum or somewhere else, but I was wondering what people thought of using the Coast Guard's National Security Cutter design as a potential US Navy frigate/littoral ship replacement?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Cutter


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:05 pm 
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Location: Calgary, AB/Surrey, B.C., Canada
At $700m per ship, NSC costs around 50% more than the LCSs - the only thing it does better is range and perhaps seakeeping. Swap out the LCS's speed requirement for slower speed, longer range, and the costs will be even more in favour of the LCS.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:07 am 
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Has been brought up in the LCS thread, but still an option that can be explored.

I was hoping our (thankfully) Former SECNAV would have ended LCS and leaned toward this or another platform for a Frigate.

He had the opportunity, and chose to continue buying the wrong item.

viewtopic.php?f=67&t=50783&start=440

Some info on the NSC as a Frigate:

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... navy-19020

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedin ... ol-frigate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OJZ8eB_mPA


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Timmy C wrote:
At $700m per ship, NSC costs around 50% more than the LCSs - the only thing it does better is range and perhaps seakeeping. Swap out the LCS's speed requirement for slower speed, longer range, and the costs will be even more in favour of the LCS.


The main reason for the higher cost per unit of the NSC or 418's, we don't call them NSC's in the Coast Guard, is because only 9 are being built. If the Navy adopted it as their new frigate costs would go down with the greater number being ordered. The NSC is also built to a higher level of survivability than the LCS. BTW, range and seakeeping are a big deal too, especially if it's going to operate as a "blue water" frigate.


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:19 am 
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I think we need to be more realistic in price expectations for our warships - the LCS completely broke the inexpensive/throw away part of the Streetfighter concept through bloat.

A reasonable multi-role combatant will cost about $1B.

That can be done on a modified NSC.

Stretch the hull of the NSC, add 32 cells of Mk 41, and you are pretty much where you need to be for a multi-role Frigate. Especially with the NSC's considerable endurance. From LCS thread:

"The NSC could be a basis, and is more likely to be built as it is a US design, but I feel it needs to be lengthened 40 or 50' to accommodate weapons and systems. This would make the hull very close to the Perry class in length.

The Patrol Frigate 4921 concept lost the fantail boat handling for Harpoon and SVTT. I would place the SVTT amidships, just ahead of the hangar so the torpedo magazine serves either the helos or the SVTT, and I'd place NSM amidships as well. Some of the 'new length' would be here. Also, consideration should be given to adding a second Gas Turbine, making two complete units for engineering DC purposes (and to acknowledge the fact the everything seem to be taking more and more power to run). Yes, lengthening and adding a second turbine would increase speed, but that is not my primary driver for adding them.

I'd add a CIWS position elevated forward of the bridge (similar to DDG 51s) and 32 or 48 cells of Mk 41 ahead of it, with a larger gun (probably Mk 45 mod 4) replacing the 57mm. This is where the lion's share of the extra length would be.

The helo hangars would need to be slightly enlarged to operate two SH-60 size platforms, even though she should normally only operate one. Smaller caliber guns (30-35mm) on the forward edges of the hangar roof.

Why the second hangar, more cells, and retention of boat handling capability? Each one allows differing load-outs as the mission requires - another SH-60 if needed, or UAVs+the SH-60, boat operations still easily sustainable in a blockade/inspection situation, and the VLS cells can be loaded any of a number of ways - more ESSM (I'd normally have 8 cells - 32 ESSM - dedicated), our new Anti-ship missile will be VLS, she may need VLASROC for convoy escort, or weapons to contribute to the task group if that applies, etc.

Each one of these is an expansion of an existing capability, so should not significantly drive cost (the engineering behind the lengthening would do that...as well as the military systems). You simply don't load and man the extra capabilities when they are not needed.

This still adds VLS (ESSM), SVTT, SLQ-32 (or newer equivalent), and close in guns (30-35mm) to the NSC crew - so we'd have to expect a 150+ complement. HH-65 for SH-60 and 57mm for Mk 45 should be almost a wash on crew numbers."

That should be achievable and effective.


$1B is being done on the Japanese Akizuki class:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akizuki-c ... %282010%29

Multi-role expeditionary Frigates based on the Iver Huitfeldt with Absalon class flex deck should be able to fit under the $1B as well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iver_Huit ... ss_frigate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absalon-c ... pport_ship


If more numbers for inshore are needed, then the Ambassador class seems a good fit (at probably about $350m/ship):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambassado ... ssile_boat


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