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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:31 pm 
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Hi,

Does anyone know the quality of this kit, will it make a useful basis for conversion into a Lion class BB?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:27 pm 
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I'll show you somepictures and let you decide.

This is a Lion under construction from a Tamiya PoW and an older one from a Matchbox DoY

Image

The Matchbox Kit is in the Foreground

Image

The Tamiya kit has much better detail, but the Matchbox kit has the correct HACS directors for Lion.

Image

The Matchbox kit is on the left

Image

The pom poms on both kits are from Tamiya kits the matchbox pom poms are indistinct lumps of plastic.

Image

The kits were both done using a Tamiya Rodney as Donor for the 16" mounts and the B barbette and hull area. The change makes the kit pretty close to the correct length. The stern was builf from plastic stock. I plan to do another and I will do pictures for the whole conversion if anyone would want to see how I did it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:59 am 
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Thanks


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 3:56 pm 
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I Did this awhile ago & entered mine in a modle competetion. If your still interested I could post some pics of it for you.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:00 am 
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Hi all.
I think the best way of doing this class of ships is scratch-building. Using the KGV as a basis is a good idea, only it will need to be lengthened and widen to match the Lion's characteristic. Note that the Lion class's superstructure and bridge are different. Also, the 'A' turret is different to 'B' and 'Y'. :thumbs_up_1: :heh: http://i.imgur.com/h4hbqTN.jpg

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--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:05 am 
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Captain Morgan wrote:
I'll show you somepictures and let you decide.

This is a Lion under construction from a Tamiya PoW and an older one from a Matchbox DoY

The Matchbox Kit is in the Foreground

The Tamiya kit has much better detail, but the Matchbox kit has the correct HACS directors for Lion.

The Matchbox kit is on the left

The pom poms on both kits are from Tamiya kits the matchbox pom poms are indistinct lumps of plastic.

The kits were both done using a Tamiya Rodney as Donor for the 16" mounts and the B barbette and hull area. The change makes the kit pretty close to the correct length. The stern was builf from plastic stock. I plan to do another and I will do pictures for the whole conversion if anyone would want to see how I did it.
I would definitely want to see more pics of your build. Good job so far. :woo_hoo:

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On the way:
--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!


Last edited by Aop Aur on Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:07 am 
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GMG4RWF wrote:
I Did this awhile ago & entered mine in a modle competetion. If your still interested I could post some pics of it for you.

Yours as well. I want to see how you all went into it:]

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--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:50 am 
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Hi all,

I found an unidentified floatplane on the Lion Class Battleship 1938 plan. I can't find any source on the internet showing this particular aircraft, so could anyone tell? If it's not an existing type, then does it resemble any other?

Image

Any response would be very appreciated,

Aop.

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On the way:
--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!


Last edited by Aop Aur on Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:51 am 
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Looks like a Fairly Albacore


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:19 pm 
It is indeed a representation of the Albacore floatplane. All FAA types were supposed to have a floatplane option. The Albacore had a pair of floats designed in, but no floatplane was ever built. One reason being that the struts connecting the floats together meant a torpedo couldn't be carried. With hindsight it's hard to see how the Albacore would be much better than the existing Swordfish in a float version. The extra tail fins imply to me that this is taken from Fairey plans, not made up by the ship design folks.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:00 am 
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Perhaps the Albacore floatplane version was intended to replace the Walrus rather than a torpedo-carrying Swordfish.

An enclosed cockpit certainly provides more weather protection for the crew.

Very interesting and thought-provoking design! Thanks for posting.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:19 am 
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@Steve, well since the aircraft was drawn on the plans, I am very interested in putting it on board my Lion model! And you should be correct that the floatplane Albacore would replace the Walrus. I think the cockpit of the Walrus seems smaller too. Maybe my Lion would be the first 1/350 battleship to carry the Albacore, then!

Then here comes the part, can anybody tell whether the Fairey Albacore included in the Trumpeter's 1/350 HMS Ark Royal is accurate? Simple modification should easily turn it into a floatplane. Also if it is accurate enough, would there be anyone who would send me some of his kit's planes or cast a resin copy for me? Please contact me via PM.

Thanks for all the answers to my inquiry!

Aop.

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On the way:
--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!


Last edited by Aop Aur on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:32 am 
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what time period are you going to do this ship?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:01 pm 
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DavidP wrote:
what time period are you going to do this ship?

I would build my Lion model according to the 1938 design plans, but maybe the period can be 1940-1942. Actually this class of ship's first design was completed in 1938, but in light of war experiences and problems associated with the KGVs, another modified plan was drawn in 1942 with a more flare bow to prevent sprays from headseas and greater length and beam to support torpedo protection systems. But since the 1942 plans are even more difficult to find, or even lost, I would stick with the existing and most reliable plans, which is the 1938 one.

Fairey Albacore was introduced in 1940, so I guess I might depict my Lion in 1941...suggestions about this are very welcomed! :big_grin:

Thanks!
Aop.

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On the way:
--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:26 am 
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I would definitely go with the Shagbat (Walrus), if an accurate depiction of HMS Lion is desired AS COMPLETED. Although the Lions' design was ca. 1938 and the contemporary choice was the Albacore, the ships' completion would have been many months further into the future. By that time, the Albacore would most likely have been "taken off the table".

There was good reason for the Swordfish--and for that matter, other floatplanes-- being replaced by the Walrus aboard most capital ships by 1939/40. The Albacore would, by then, have been a clear step backward.

On the other hand, since these ships were cancelled by Churchill after the dismissal of Chamberlain as Prime Minister, and the Lion is therefore a "what-if" project, the Albacore is perfectly in keeping with the original design plan. In that case no radar, Oerlikons, etc. should be added as these wartime fittings would, naturally, be absent.

In any event I wish you good luck with your project, and hope you have fun doing it! :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:58 am 
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RNfanDan wrote:
I would definitely go with the Shagbat (Walrus), if an accurate depiction of HMS Lion is desired AS COMPLETED. Although the Lions' design was ca. 1938 and the contemporary choice was the Albacore, the ships' completion would have been many months further into the future. By that time, the Albacore would most likely have been "taken off the table".

There was good reason for the Swordfish--and for that matter, other floatplanes-- being replaced by the Walrus aboard most capital ships by 1939/40. The Albacore would, by then, have been a clear step backward.

On the other hand, since these ships were cancelled by Churchill after the dismissal of Chamberlain as Prime Minister, and the Lion is therefore a "what-if" project, the Albacore is perfectly in keeping with the original design plan. In that case no radar, Oerlikons, etc. should be added as these wartime fittings would, naturally, be absent.

In any event I wish you good luck with your project, and hope you have fun doing it! :thumbs_up_1:

Thanks! I think I would really, really enjoy the project as she is one of my favourite ships!
Regarding the planes, Supermarine Walrus and Fairey Swordfish's first flights were in 1933 and 1934 respectively. Then introduced in 1935 and 1936. So these two were more or less the older types that served in the second world war. On the other hand, the Fairey Albacore's first flight was in 1938 and introduced in 1940, so would it be more likely that the Albacore would replace the Walrus and Swordfish? And as one might say, the Albacore's design provides better weather protection for the crew in comparison to the previous types, and this would prove beneficial for reconnaissance mission.

Anyway it is indeed a 'what-if' warship, so one cannot predict the most accurate piece of evidence on any one square inch on the ship. But well, since I am pretty sure I can confidently say that there is no battleship model in this scale that carries an Albacore, this might be an interesting feature to put on the model. But you are still certainly right about going with the Walrus, as I have it right on my table and Pontos has already made PE for it (in the PoW upgrade set I bought,) so this will save time and money to either seek planes from someone else's Ark Royal kit, or design one for 3D printing myself (which needs very accurate plans in making one in 123D Design..there's no better programme available for me nor am I a professional designer), or the least likely alternative; to scratch it up myself.

P.S I would still love to hear anyone who purchased the Ark Royal kit and would want to devote a plane or two, or (more likely) cast some resin copies for me!

@Steve Larsen; as a professional designer, do you know if 123D design supports aircraft designing? Any experience or recommendation? :big_grin:

Regards,
Aop.

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On the way:
--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:27 am 
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Aop Aur wrote:
....@Steve Larsen; as a professional designer, do you know if 123D design supports aircraft designing? Any experience or recommendation? :big_grin:

Regards,
Aop.

Hi Aop!

The 123D software you have can be used to design aircraft by making good use of the "loft" function.

Having said that, there is a designer on Shapeways who goes by "decapod" who specializes in 1/350 aircraft, including lots of biplanes. He may be willing to design Albacores. His Fairey Fulmars look good and his 1/144 designs are very good-looking. His Felixstowe F2A and RAF Fe.2s are my favorites and his 1/1250 ships look great, too.

Here's the link: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/decapod

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-Steve Larsen

Catalog of over 2500 products for scale modelers - https://www.model-monkey.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:04 pm 
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Aop Aur wrote:


Regarding the planes, Supermarine Walrus and Fairey Swordfish's first flights were in 1933 and 1934 respectively. Then introduced in 1935 and 1936. So these two were more or less the older types that served in the second world war. On the other hand, the Fairey Albacore's first flight was in 1938 and introduced in 1940, so would it be more likely that the Albacore would replace the Walrus and Swordfish? And as one might say, the Albacore's design provides better weather protection for the crew in comparison to the previous types, and this would prove beneficial for reconnaissance mission.


Aop, the Walrus had an enclosable cockpit, featuring a paned, framed, sliding roof with (perspex?) windows, at least on real aircraft I have seen in on-line images. Not so the Swordfish, of course. I can say with certainty that Walruses were carried aboard the KGV class, and they also replaced the Fairey Swordfish floatplanes (formerly carried in 1939) by HMS Repulse.

Shagbats may not have been as commonly carried in the early war days, but at least one notable exception is found at the Battle of the River Plate in December, 1939. Float-fitted, wheeled aircraft were apparently not as well suited as "flying boats" (such as the Walrus) aboard capital ships. In addition, most wheeled aircraft had low-fitted, cowl-mounted engines and props, whereas the Walrus' engine and prop were well-above water and away from the sea surface, a deliberate design advantage of flying boats over float-fitted "wheelers". This is why I am leaning toward Walruses, rather than Albacores--by the latter aircraft's comparative rarity aboard HM warships, even after the Swordfish was landed.

It's up to you of course, and I would love to see your project when finished! :smallsmile:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:13 pm 
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RNfanDan wrote:
Aop Aur wrote:


Regarding the planes, Supermarine Walrus and Fairey Swordfish's first flights were in 1933 and 1934 respectively. Then introduced in 1935 and 1936. So these two were more or less the older types that served in the second world war. On the other hand, the Fairey Albacore's first flight was in 1938 and introduced in 1940, so would it be more likely that the Albacore would replace the Walrus and Swordfish? And as one might say, the Albacore's design provides better weather protection for the crew in comparison to the previous types, and this would prove beneficial for reconnaissance mission.


Aop, the Walrus had an enclosable cockpit, featuring a paned, framed, sliding roof with (perspex?) windows, at least on real aircraft I have seen in on-line images. Not so the Swordfish, of course. I can say with certainty that Walruses were carried aboard the KGV class, and they also replaced the Fairey Swordfish floatplanes (formerly carried in 1939) by HMS Repulse.

Shagbats may not have been as commonly carried in the early war days, but at least one notable exception is found at the Battle of the River Plate in December, 1939. Float-fitted, wheeled aircraft were apparently not as well suited as "flying boats" (such as the Walrus) aboard capital ships. In addition, most wheeled aircraft had low-fitted, cowl-mounted engines and props, whereas the Walrus' engine and prop were well-above water and away from the sea surface, a deliberate design advantage of flying boats over float-fitted "wheelers". This is why I am leaning toward Walruses, rather than Albacores--by the latter aircraft's comparative rarity aboard HM warships, even after the Swordfish was landed.

It's up to you of course, and I would love to see your project when finished! :smallsmile:

Well thanks for the futher info! I don't know much of these things, really. Maybe you are right, that although the Walrus was older, it may proved superior for services at sea to the Albacore in regards of the engine position, etc. I might see if anyone would donate me an Albacore, but if not, I would definitely stick with the Walrus.
In my opinion, both planes are really nice:
Image
Image

I am currently scratch-building the Lion's rear superstructure. When it is taking shape I will post progress of it in a new thread. I must say I am very, very excited to see the overall finished model! Maarten schönfeld also has this project in his scratch-building list, so I would send any research I have done as alternative references for him.

Regards,
Aop.

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On the way:
--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:39 pm 
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ModelMonkey wrote:
Hi Aop!

The 123D software you have can be used to design aircraft by making good use of the "loft" function.

Having said that, there is a designer on Shapeways who goes by "decapod" who specializes in 1/350 aircraft, including lots of biplanes. He may be willing to design Albacores. His Fairey Fulmars look good and his 1/144 designs are very good-looking. His Felixstowe F2A and RAF Fe.2s are my favorites and his 1/1250 ships look great, too.

Here's the link: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/decapod

Steve,
Thank you so much for the recommendation, and his aircraft designs look really, really good! And he used the 123D design?? :thumbs_up_1:

I never tried designing planes yet, but I did try lofting body plans of ships, but it didn't work... I guess it needs more lines of body plans in order to get from, say, square to squircle, and then to circle? So does normal plans for the Albacore adequate for this? I just want to give it a try before getting master designers to help. :big_grin:

@all, Well, for such a what-if project, I could make both Albacore and Walrus, displaying one at a time! :heh:

Thank you for all the responses and opinions!

Aop.

_________________
On the way:
--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!


Last edited by Aop Aur on Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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