Seasick wrote:
The Iowas and the Montanas would be very vulnerable torpedo attack.
You know, Seasick, you have a good streak of making really weird claims about the ultimate vulnerabilities of battleships. I and other people counter almost every one of your comments, usually with no response from you. From your continued statements I guess you either make a post and never look back or you just don't like contradictory information. It kind of seems like you dismiss information that simply contradicts yours no matter the source material. So, after giving you lots of chances to counter my arguments that negate yours, now I kind of have to call you out.
I don't know what your background is, but I can tell that you hold what you think in very high esteem. I am sure you find yourself to be an authority on some things, but there are people who have more knowledge than you, and it seems to be especially true about the Iowa and Montana-class battleships. I regularly talk to the highest person there is on the battleship food chain. He is the guy who designed the modernizations for the New Jersey in 1967. He is the guy who designed the modernization for the Iowas in 1981. He was “Project Manager: Modernization and Reactivation of the Iowa-class battleships, Maintenance, Upgrade, and Replacement of their Equipment, Armor, Weapon Systems, and planned upgrades” based at Longbeach Naval Shipyard. He designed replacement armor. He knows exactly how much actual replacement armor exists. He knows what it would take to arm the ship with VLS for real. He designed the Warfighting Improvement Upgrades for the Ticos, Spruances, and Iowas. When the Missouri went into drydock recently, NAVSEA called him for advice about what they found when they drained the drydock. When the US Navy has questions about battleships, they call him. He is the ultimate living authority on the Iowa-class battleships as ships. I would suggest you consider his opinion.
So, let me tell you what he says about the ship's rating against torpedo attack.
Seasick wrote:
The Iowas and the Montanas would be very vulnerable torpedo attack.
He says that, designed for or not, the Iowas can withstand 6 modern under-keel torpedo detonations before the ship is put at risk. He says the Montanas would have much more protection, possibly twice as much. In addition,
Iowa Class Battleships: Iowa, New Jersey, Missouri & Wisconsin (Weapons and Warfare) by Malcolm Muir states that the Iowas were designed to withstand multiple detonations of one ton harbor bottom-resting mines. So, the ships were indeed designed with under-keel protection.
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Not only was it a triple hull with a 1.5" armor arrangement just above the keel, but that was met by a 13.5" class A armor belt that sat behind side-torpedo protection. There are pictures in Friedman's book showing the unclassified armor arrangement.
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The propeller shaft skegs were specifically armored to protect from torpedoes striking the prop shafts....underneath the ship. That is awfully close to the keel.
As you see there are large volumes underneath the ship left void. They were specifically to act as a crumple zone against detonations underneath the ship. Above those voids, there was a vast armor arrangement that protected the belly of the ship. Here is what the stern looked like.
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Even the hull shape, huge, huge voids in the torpedo defense system, and triple hull illustrate the depth of design in the torpedo defense system.
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So, I hope you take some of this into account, because you can. I always think it’s a good idea not to assume, research, verify, and keep an open mind.
Over the few years you have commented on my modernized Iowa thread with common arguments, I have countered them with referenced data I have verified with sources such as NAVSEA and the Project Manager I mentioned earlier. Those are the highest authorities I have been able to find, and I think they might be the highest of them all. Even though you may be confident in what you're saying, I would ask you sharpen up on your battleship knowledge if you want to keep commenting on the topic of battleships...unless it’s just not worth your time.
I cannot wait to see langer525’s or anyone else’s Montana, WIF or not.