The Ship Model Forum

An August 1956 USN study as a minimun Terrier ship (DEG) using a DD-931 F.Sherman hull with a twin Terrier lchr aft, and accommodate forty missiles, and the two SPQ-5 missile guidance radars (these would be replaced by later SPG-55), have a ASROC lchr amidships, retain fwd 5"/54 gun, lose all remaining weapons/Systems: the two aft 5"/54 guns and both sets of twin 3"/50 guns, all torpedo syst. (except mk-32 ASW triple tubes), the two hedgehog lchrs, the depth charge rack. The down side was to accomodate volume of the missile system, the boiler power would be reduce to 40,000 SHP from 70,000 SHP reducing speed to 28 kts. This same setup on a DDG-2 C.F.adams class Hull, with same Terrier system, only losing the aft 5"/54 gun and replacing the tartar with Terrier system, would retain boiler power of 70,000 SHP, and speed of 31 kts. this info is from U.S. Destroyers, Norman Friedman

I was thinking of doing a scratchbuild modification of a Atlantis 1/320 F.Sherman kit into one of the above. 2nd option would require the lengthening of the hull

thought I put this out there.

Interesting build, let us know how it progresses. As for lengthiness the, the hardest part would be getting a clean cut of the hull. Most ship lengthening merely inserted a slug that followed existing hull lines amidship.

Bill

probably extend the hull by at least 12.5 mm to be in range of the C.f.Adams DDG-2 class, might extend by 33mm to be in the range of hull length that was under consideration at the time, to go longer was getting closer to DLG size, if go longer then also need to increase the beam between 1.5mm to 3mm.

no, I do not have any extra model of F.Sherman, either drive about hour to a hobby shop when I have some time off from work, or order online.

Basically the decision was made to use Tartar on all the F.Sherman size hulls, larger hulls would have two Tartars or a Terrier, the Terrier ended up on Farragut hulls(the original design was all guns), Then Typhon missile program was cancelled(another story), lack of funds due to Polaris Submarine/Missile program, super carriers getting priority. The DDG/DLG plans for 1956 to 1962 did not happened as planned, the DDG became C.F.Adams class, this was short on the number of DDGs needed only twentythree built for USN, this is why the USN was looking at converting all F.Shermans to DDGs with Tartar. The Leahy class became the new DLG, there few possible what if from this time period. going to stop here not trying to give a history lesson.

already have my C.F.Adams when I converted a F.Sherman into a DDG and installed two SPG-51's( instead of one SPG-51 as the USN did), only main thing missing is the 2nd 5"/54, (not trusting my scratch build ability at the time), to lengthed the hull, after doing the scratch build work involved with it, yeah could of made it a C.F.Adams (the real reason for the conversion).

Plan on building two more F.Sherman conversions extend the hull on the first one, If the cutting and adding a hull section works out on the first hull, then I cut a 2nd hull for the 2nd build, first build will have a twin Terrier lchr aft, retain one 5"/54 fwd, have, ASROC amidship, two triple Mk32 ASW TTs some where, retain two twin 3"/50 mounts maybe place aft past the amidships one mount each on stbd, and port something like the Farragut. Probably no room for Helio pad on this setup, but will try make space for it.

2nd build be similar in size to the first build, be a more modern variant: have harpoon SSM quad lchrs, and two phalanx's, the Later ULQ-32(V) ECM syst. maybe Helio pad with extendable hangar with SH-2/LAMPS helio, will go back to Tartar missile syst. on the 2nd build if space becomes a problem, still have 5"/54 fwd(retain MK42 not upgrading to the mk45). plan on building both at the same time. Have yet to decide on the radars and sonar set up on either build.

Was reading up on the SCB129 which is the Farragut class in all gun, with four mk42 5"/54, which is later modified into SCB142 Coontz which removes three of the four 5"/54 guns, and adds a Terrier lchr aft, the first three Farraguts were ordered as all gun and modifed during construction to the Coontz standard, as the Coontz completed first as Terrier variant, comparing layout out of C.F.Adams class with Coontz/Farragut class thinking of building something in between these two in size as C.F. Adams is closer to F.Sherman class in size and layout. C.F.Adams class is the minium size for Terrier, Mitscher or Farragut/Coontz class is max size.

printed up some images to work with, plan on drawing up some sort of ship build plan, to do the measurements, and figure out space needed for the ship systems/weapons/sensor fit, the scratch build component size:

using a(atlantis 1/320 F.Sherman kit): F.Sherman enlarged, adding 33' to the lenght at the waterline, and 18" to the beam

listed below is new build conv. what if data / compared to orignal F.Sherman data

build conv.DLG 1957-59 / F.Sherman DD original build 1952
LWL 440' / 407'
beam 47' / 44'-11.5"
Draft(full) 15'-6" / 15'-0.37"
SHP 70,000 / 70,000
speed 31.8 kts / 33 kts
Lt ship* 3,370 / 2,734
Full load* 4,670 / 4,916
Endurance** 4,300 / 4,500

1xtwin mk10 Terrier lchr / -----------
1x octuple ASROC / -----------
1xsingle mk42 5"/54 / 3xsingle mk42 5"/54
2xtwin mk33 3"/50 / 2xtwin mk33 3"/50
2x triple mk32TT / 4xsingle mk25 TT, & 2xsingle mk4 dropside ASW Torp lchr.
-------------------- / 2xMk10/11 Hedgehog
-------------------- /1xDepth charge track w 12xDCs



*long tons
** at 20kts, nautical miles

did a rough draft drawing, still in the drafting phase until the model kits arrive in the mail.

top outline is a F.Sherman, the below outline is a F.Sherman with hull extended, with possible wpn systems, and the location of ship systems such as smoke stacks, etc. still playing around with this, thought I share what iam thinking at the moment.

Thanks davidP for the image I will look that more closely before I start the build. What I notice about the C.F.Adams class from stern to the aft stack is very closly lines up with the F.Sherman class, looks like the expanded hull was done amidships forward of aft stack, The C.F.Adams bridge, and fwd 5"/54 gun is more forward than F.Sherman class, and has the raised forecastle that was done on later F.Shermans, the C.F.Adams bow projects out more, has larger stacks still basically same powerplant with better controls. wanted to use as F.Sherman stacks from the kit, and maybe some of level 1 superstructure, same hardpoints locations for weapon systems, the original hull shape, to show it origins, be lot of scratch building from main deck up. Thanks for the interest in this project.

DavidP have You built any of these various F.Sherman/C.F.Adams kitbash ? I can see my self building a few more as there few options in that hull size, and the weapons/sonar/radar systems available in that time frame 1952 to 1990s (1980s refit service into the 1990s) by 1990s this type of ship would be retired (but foreign users of these type of ships into 2000s or beyond such Taiwan etc), as steam plant is replaced by gas turbines/as nuclear was not used for very long on surface warships other than aircraft carriers, I do not believe that any navy would put a nuclear plant in a hull this size. (I was thinking of F.Sherman/Bainbridge nuclear type DDGN)?

trying put together the weight and space/volume requirement of the different systems, to be realistic with the build.

DavidP three F.Shermans let me guess one as originally built, one as Decatur type(Tartar system), one as Barry type(ASW-ASROC mod)?

online photo of Australian C.F.Adams: shows Phalanx CIWS adjacent to aft stack, *possible location for where to add a phalanx in the new builds or upgrade mods. Note there no Ikara ASW system ? in the original ASROC area, photo also shows superstructure expanded in this area at the level 2.

I just looked at the online photos on navsource: which shows the Australian versions of C.F Adams class was built with the superstructure/deckhouse at the level 2, between the smoke stacks, with space in the corners for Ikara ASW Systems.

Just recieved a third Atlantis 1/320 scale F.Sherman class model kit, posting a photo as out of the box not started. the first two kits already built, first one as DD-931 around 1960 before any major upgrades, second one as DD-932/DDG-32 with Tartar conversion around mid 1970s.

Plan on starting the third kit this weekend, cut the hull add an plug/extension to the hull, this build will be something between a DDG2 C.F.Adams class and a DLG Farragut/Coontz class in size.

started the build now in viewtopic.php?f=59&t=380921