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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:52 pm 
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SovereignHobbies
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Hi folks,

I've written one tonight, and this one does not have anyone elses' reputation at stake so it all happens much quicker. The reality is that the written references for this one are a little thinner so it's more of an interpretational exercise than a clear paper trail - but the reality is that the findings are perhaps less contentious than some of the previous shades we've written about that have carried more fundamental anomalies.

Hope it's useful?

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/royal-navy-colours-of-world-war-two-the-standard-camouflage-colours-1941-1943


***As this has been a 3 hour hatchet job I do reserve the right to pull and edit this should I realise I've messed something up! ***

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:36 am 
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SovereignHobbies wrote:
Hi folks,

I've written one tonight, and this one does not have anyone elses' reputation at stake so it all happens much quicker. The reality is that the written references for this one are a little thinner so it's more of an interpretational exercise than a clear paper trail - but the reality is that the findings are perhaps less contentious than some of the previous shades we've written about that have carried more fundamental anomalies.

Hope it's useful?

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/royal-navy-colours-of-world-war-two-the-standard-camouflage-colours-1941-1943


***As this has been a 3 hour hatchet job I do reserve the right to pull and edit this should I realise I've messed something up! ***


I find it useful. There is lack of 507b on that chart, but may be its ok since you assume it is same of 507A just different reflective? Or?

I also think the idea that they have these degrees of relfectivity is so much overlooked by most modellers, even top ones.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:30 am 
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pascalemod wrote:

I find it useful. There is lack of 507b on that chart, but may be its ok since you assume it is same of 507A just different reflective? Or?

I also think the idea that they have these degrees of relfectivity is so much overlooked by most modellers, even top ones.


Hi :smallsmile:

Two reasons for that:

1) Perhaps pedantically, 507B was not in use in 1941 when the Standard Camouflage Colours were - so you should never see 507B mentioned in a scheme with MS1,2,3 etc
2) 507B is explained in this one posted a couple of days earlier :thumbs_up_1: https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/royal-navy-colours-of-world-war-two-pattern-507s-g10-and-g45

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Fascinating stuff. Thanks for all your efforts.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:23 am 
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MartinJQuinn wrote:
Fascinating stuff. Thanks for all your efforts.


+1 !!

and what about deck colors in a 507a/b ship ? would they also be in 507a/b ? (I in particular think to HMS HOOD in her late guise)

thx !

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:09 am 
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Normally I'd say, no, the deck is a much darker AP507A. But when I look at this I see no difference between the deck and the rest of the ship. Hmmmm...

Attachment:
deck.jpg


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:27 am 
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Put simply, I am uncertain.

EDIT: I take it we are talking about steel decks in particular, yes?

There is a record about new bought-in civvie made non slip deck paints and where to order them from, dated (without checking back) to mid 1941.

I recall it lists some colours available as black, dark grey, Home Fleet Grey and then went on to Light Grey etc.

So the same shade as 507A/B is a valid possibility, but it's possible there was a darker grey in use too.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Just wondering if anyone has seen this colour footage yet from D-Day which was filmed from the HMS Belfast - at 5:28 there is a full colour front on of the bridge and turrets. In earlier scenes there is clearly blue on the forward funnel. There are other ships depicted in colour as well. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/wor ... eased.html

Plenty of other footage like this around on youtube if you use the correct search parameters. Apparently it was filmed by a Hollywood producer and recently discovered in the last 5 years.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:37 am 
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Sutho wrote:
Just wondering if anyone has seen this colour footage yet from D-Day which was filmed from the HMS Belfast - at 5:28 there is a full colour front on of the bridge and turrets. In earlier scenes there is clearly blue on the forward funnel. There are other ships depicted in colour as well. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/wor ... eased.html

Plenty of other footage like this around on youtube if you use the correct search parameters. Apparently it was filmed by a Hollywood producer and recently discovered in the last 5 years.


Being 1944 it will be outwith the scope of the paper linked above - but the blue on the funnel looks to be B15 and very reminiscent of the samples that both Sean (Cag) and myself made independently using the AFO 2106/43 formula for B15.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:46 pm 
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SovereignHobbies wrote:
Sutho wrote:
Just wondering if anyone has seen this colour footage yet from D-Day which was filmed from the HMS Belfast - at 5:28 there is a full colour front on of the bridge and turrets. In earlier scenes there is clearly blue on the forward funnel. There are other ships depicted in colour as well. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/wor ... eased.html

Plenty of other footage like this around on youtube if you use the correct search parameters. Apparently it was filmed by a Hollywood producer and recently discovered in the last 5 years.


Being 1944 it will be outwith the scope of the paper linked above - but the blue on the funnel looks to be B15 and very reminiscent of the samples that both Sean (Cag) and myself made independently using the AFO 2106/43 formula for B15.


I was hoping you would say that and it is what I had suspected the funnel colour to be myself. I believe the Belfast was in that scheme from 1943 onward. The published colours were 507C, B6, B5, and 507A. As you see the ship in London is similar to how it was painted with the B5/B15 on the bow and alternate side of each funnel.

I am thinking there is not enough evidence to suggest that the WEM version of B6 was on the ship and think your B6 looks better, but I have not seen enough of the ship in colour to make that judgement call. That being said I can also see in the same frame the aft superstructure of the ship in shadow at 10 seconds in which appear to be a darker blue colour than the funnel but this darkness is because of the shadow. At 46 seconds in onward it shows the bow bridge structure where B6 was supposedly painted on but I think the shadow of the colour photo makes it impossible to tell for sure what colour from your new charts it could be.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:30 am 
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I think Dick told me that when painting Belfast for display the IWM somehow believed that buying paint to BS381C specs would be cheaper than having it matched to other colours, hence Belfast now is painted in Dark and Light Admiralty Greys, PRU Blue etc.

This forum software is a bit long in the tooth now so I can't tag Richard to double check, but I'm sure we discussed that over a nice cold pint of beer near Duxford last July!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:18 pm 
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That's the file corrected in a few obvious places now. I turned the colour table near the end round 90deg and enlarged it to fill a page. It's a little clearer now as a result.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:50 am 
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SovereignHobbies wrote:
I think Dick told me that when painting Belfast for display the IWM somehow believed that buying paint to BS381C specs would be cheaper than having it matched to other colours, hence Belfast now is painted in Dark and Light Admiralty Greys, PRU Blue etc.

This forum software is a bit long in the tooth now so I can't tag Richard to double check, but I'm sure we discussed that over a nice cold pint of beer near Duxford last July!


That is right - I did!

For reasons of economy Belfast is painted today in off-the-shelf BS381C maritime paints: #632 Dark Admiralty grey, #636 PR Blue, #697 Light Admiralty grey and #627 Light Aircraft grey


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:26 pm 
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dick wrote:
SovereignHobbies wrote:
I think Dick told me that when painting Belfast for display the IWM somehow believed that buying paint to BS381C specs would be cheaper than having it matched to other colours, hence Belfast now is painted in Dark and Light Admiralty Greys, PRU Blue etc.

This forum software is a bit long in the tooth now so I can't tag Richard to double check, but I'm sure we discussed that over a nice cold pint of beer near Duxford last July!


That is right - I did!

For reasons of economy Belfast is painted today in off-the-shelf BS381C maritime paints: #632 Dark Admiralty grey, #636 PR Blue, #697 Light Admiralty grey and #627 Light Aircraft grey


Thanks to both of you regarding this.

Now that we have some new information re HMS Belfast is it time we started a HMS Belfast camo thread??


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Quote:

Thanks to both of you regarding this.

Now that we have some new information re HMS Belfast is it time we started a HMS Belfast camo thread??


Needed !!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:05 am 
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mister me wrote:
Quote:

Thanks to both of you regarding this.

Now that we have some new information re HMS Belfast is it time we started a HMS Belfast camo thread??


Needed !!


Created and in the camouflage & coatings section. I have even drawn a picture of the ship we can all work on.

I hope Sovereign does not mind the use of their colours to work on the ship and figure out if the references are correct and also when the scheme changed.


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