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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:27 am 
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SovereignHobbies
SovereignHobbies

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:09 am
Posts: 686
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK
The only definite steer on emergency grey is documented in Section V here which you've probably already read:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0730/0927/files/CAFO1112_Camouflage_of_Sea_Going_Ships_Policy_June_1942.pdf?11210309288652758831

The gist of this is repeated in (I think) two other documents in 1943 and then again in 1945.

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James Duff
Sovereign Hobbies Ltd
http://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk

Current build:
HMS Imperial D09 1/350
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:33 am 
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Hi All

The Captain Tennant reference is in a file concerning the 'contrast' camo scheme applied to HMS Repulse designed by an officer on board ship. It was designed purely to try to confuse inclinometers etc.

The two tones to be used were under debate,and Tennant referenced an pre war Admiralty document that considered a grey between Home Fleet and Foreign Stations grey, this was a tone that might be considered in the scheme if neccessary. The document comes with a sketch showing the proposed scheme if applied to Repulse, Hood, Nelson and Furious (two tone scheme).

The 507b paint was oil based with enamel and in some IWM images (I think one of either Nelson or Rodneys crew painting the turrets is a good example) of the preparation, there are seen small hammers in use to rough up the surface, as well as washing etc. This hammered surface appears tonally darker in these images which might throw us off a little.

The well known image of the crew painting Hood's after screen near X turret shows a light tone being applied over a darker tone. It has been proposed somewhere IIRC this is 507b medium grey being painted over 507a dark grey?


Research shows that 507a and 507b were the same tone, the only difference being whether enamel was added or not. Therefore I'd make an educated guess that it's perhaps more likely that in the Hood image we simply see a darkened rough hammered surface being covered by a similar tone of fresh paint?


The black and white images we have are lovely, but boy can they deceive us sometimes!

Best wishes
Cag.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:03 am 
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SovereignHobbies
SovereignHobbies

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:09 am
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Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK
Thank you,

I recall it was your good self who had the Tennant file now. I do remember the Confidential Book referenced though - it was C.B.3016 dated to 1937. I never did hear back from Portsmouth about whether they had a copy of that in London. It may have been a wild goose chase anyway though because the wording Tennant used was "mentioned in" which suggests without actually C.B.3016/37 that it doesn't dwell too much on the subject or go in to much detail.

Chances are that it would end up like that useless British Standard purchased last year just to discover there was nothing in it that we didn't already know about Pattern 370(A) and Pattern 371 Blue-black Pastes :Mad_6:

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James Duff
Sovereign Hobbies Ltd
http://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk

Current build:
HMS Imperial D09 1/350
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Hi All

Hi Jamie, no problem you're welcome. Yes I'm afraid we built up our hopes on that file but to no avail!

Looking forward to your release of the camo colours my 'add to basket' finger is itching!

Best wishes
Cag.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:49 am 
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While we are on the subject about research and archives, are there still WWII documents, films, photos and anything at all still subject to restrictions that mean they cannot be released to the public until a certain amount of time has elapsed or are all documents, films and photos from the war completely unclassified now?


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:59 am 
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I think the longest period was 75 years, so that's nearly fully over? I think the final Bismarck material was partly under a 75yr embargo...


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:35 am 
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SovereignHobbies
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That is my understanding too. I don't doubt however that a great deal of photographic material and cinefilm is hoarded or lying in landfill sites taken by people who are now no longer with us, and the relatives either had no idea or simply didn't see any value in the contents.

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James Duff
Sovereign Hobbies Ltd
http://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk

Current build:
HMS Imperial D09 1/350
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:46 pm 
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SovereignHobbies wrote:
That is my understanding too. I don't doubt however that a great deal of photographic material and cinefilm is hoarded or lying in landfill sites taken by people who are now no longer with us, and the relatives either had no idea or simply didn't see any value in the contents.


I saw your updated paint chart on Facebook, can we all assume that this is the final product and if so I have a few questions.

1. In order to update my own supply are there any paints that you did not change that were the same as WEM or not so much different that required changing?

2. Will there be a recall of existing paints with I think Creative Models in Australia in order for us to get the newer versions when they arrive?


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:03 am 
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SovereignHobbies
SovereignHobbies

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Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK
Hi,

I have updated the post in the traders' section here with that:
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=167118&p=739361#p739361

On the graphic which a few people have now jokingly dubbed "the periodic table" it's *almost* final. We're still working on Flotta shades and trowel-on deck coverings (including the brand name "Semtex") in the background but these will be available a bit later.

Believe it or not, we have had a number of folks asking about how to get the old colours, in some cases because they have something half-built and ran out, or in others because they've already got a collection in the old colours and prefer them all uniform rather than move to the new colours. For that reason we have concluded that existing stocks are viable and can remain in circulation. Plenty people still seem to want it.

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James Duff
Sovereign Hobbies Ltd
http://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk

Current build:
HMS Imperial D09 1/350
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151


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