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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:25 pm 
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HMS_PRINCE_OF_WALES_arrives_at_Singapore,_4_December_1941._A6784_(cropped).jpg

If the lightest color in this scheme is 507C, then what's the colors coming through underneath - white?


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:42 pm 
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I don't think British Capital ships wore white in WWII.
I think its just original 507-C showing through the MS paints due to wave action, the MS paints likely were not as durable as the original 507-C Admiralty paints. The overpainting of MS-4 might not have been as well prepared as the under layers.
Just a guess others will know more.
John


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:52 am 
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Martin J Quinn My guess is either the original light grey she was launched in or the very light/white undercoat under that. http://www.artnet.com/artists/charles-g ... sIuyHCm5w2


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:01 am 
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Last edited by EJFoeth on Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:08 am 
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What is "tie" coating?

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:20 am 
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Last edited by EJFoeth on Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:01 am 
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The terms used in British industry and the Royal Navy have for some considerable time been the same. What you term the "tie" coat, EJ Foeth, is known as the "under coat." One of its functions may well be the binding of the primer to the top coat. However, due to the fact that a primer may differ in hue from the top coat, the under coat: being much the same hue as the top, is generally used to cover the primer, hence it is often advisable to apply two coats of under coat before applying a top coat.


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:34 pm 
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dick wrote:
Martin J Quinn My guess is either the original light grey she was launched in or the very light/white undercoat under that. http://www.artnet.com/artists/charles-g ... sIuyHCm5w2

Thanks for your responses here and on FB. Very helpful!

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:42 pm 
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I am currently reading a copy of "Alarm Starboard" by Geoffrey Brooke one of the survivors from Prince of Wales from Bismarck right through to the sinking. He doesn't go into much detail of the colours in the camouflage but does make some interesting observations. In one part he stated British ships had a more blueish look to their grey than the German ships. He describes seeing the antifouling hull of Ark Royal bobbing out of the water looking almost brown.

One interesting point was that Bismarck damage to the ship was never fully repaired in some areas and the compass platform was "never quite the same" In fact the compass platform they painted a white area on the place where one of their members lost their life as a form of memorial to them. So on the compass platform somewhere there was an area painted white that was still dented from the shell hit.

Unfortunately he does not go into detail about how the ship had the camouflage painted on it as I have now got to the chapter on the "Fall of Singapore" and the ships has already been sunk.

The Bismarck action almost nearly sunk the Prince of Wales and he seems to think it would have been sunk if the 15 inch shell had exploded that they found in the ship when it was in dry dock getting repairs. It landed so close to the aft oil reserves and magazines that it was his opinion that had it gone off there the ship would have been lost.


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:08 pm 
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Sutho wrote:
I am currently reading a copy of "Alarm Starboard" by Geoffrey Brooke one of the survivors from Prince of Wales from Bismarck right through to the sinking. He doesn't go into much detail of the colours in the camouflage but does make some interesting observations. In one part he stated British ships had a more blueish look to their grey than the German ships. He describes seeing the antifouling hull of Ark Royal bobbing out of the water looking almost brown.


Re Ark Royal, not the hull, just the forefoot as I read it:

(Page 7) “…heaving her bow right out of the sea so that the angular brown-painted forefoot jutted clear…..”

Brooke records the incident with Ark Royal as being two weeks into the war, so roughly mid September 1939. Her previous docking was July 1939 and the relevant D495 docking report tells us that at that time Ark Royal’s bottom was coated with Moravia paints, but this particular report does not tell us the colour of the paints used.

First on would have been two coats of protective. Moravia protective came in grey and red. Say the grey went on first and red second. We don’t know the hue of Moravia ‘red’ but my suspicion, based on the builder’s model of KGV, is that Moravia’s red protective was actually quite brown.

After that came the top coat, the anti-fouling. Moravia anti fouling came in grey or black. The bow area was one of the areas of the bottom subject to most wear from water friction, the forefoot perhaps particularly so. Say the anti fouling there was beginning to wear off and the top layer of protective was showing through…. that could account for what Brooke recalled when he wrote his book 43 years later.


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 11:02 am 
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For those with an interest in the colour of the lower hull of HMS Prince of Wales, I have consulted the Ships’ Covers for the KGV Class held by the NMM. A note states that MacArthur’s composition was designated to be used on the bottom of HMS Prince Wales. MacArthur’s anti fouling composition came in black or grey. The lower hull of HMS Prince of Wales is visible in photos of her in drydock after the Bismarck action and when sinking. These show that her lower hull was lighter than (the black of) her boot topping indicating that her bottom was grey.

The shades of grey (and red) anti fouling compositions used by the RN in WW2 varied according to the different manufacturers. Photos seem to show that MacArthur’s grey anti fouling might have been very slightly lighter than Home Fleet grey.


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:57 am 
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Thank you Richard, it's wonderful to read the results of your searches.


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