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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I'm going to make this thread here in the Camouflage & Coatings forum. It is off topic, but the same forum was used to attack me so it belongs in the same spot.

Recently the owner of this forum, Timothy Dike, a moderator, Olaf Held, and some other users have a lot of fun running a smear campaign against me. I would have thought this forum was about ship models. But I guess I was wrong.

When I'm the victim of false accusations and having my integrity questioned I have a right to defend myself.

It was very clever of Olaf Held to close down the thread to prevent me from defending myself. Well done, Olaf. I can see how much you enjoy your power in here. I guess it compensates from something else.

And now to you Timothy Dike, the owner who feel so fine about what his forum is used for, so he even contribute himself. Without having any technical understanding or background information he is instantly able to send accusations against me.

Mr. Dike, I'm sad nobody has ever taught you that a person is innocent until he is proven guilty. In other words, I don't have to prove that I'm innocent.

But since you don't understand that I will do an exception. You don't believe I have made my own drawings.
I have made drawings of ships for my website in the last 14 years. The drawings below was made 13 years ago by me. The images are screen dumps from the program I use to make the drawings.

Image
Here are some samples of some of my drawings.

Image
Here I have twisted the lines. I challenge you to try to do that with the drawings you accused me for stealing.

Image
Here the drawings are active. I again challenge you to try to do that with the drawings you accused me for stealing.

Image
A side view and a top view of my drawings together. Also here I challenge you to try to do that with the drawings you accused me for stealing.

Try it, you can just take the drawings from the internet and have a go. You can't. So simple is it. So how dare you accuse me for stealing drawings? Fact is you have no understanding of how this works.

So I believe you owe me a big apology and I demand that you remove my drawings from your forum.

You got your documentation now and I have nothing further to say to you. As a owner of a forum you have no credibility in my eyes. You lack fundamental skills in how to run a forum and treat other people, and you clearly have a dubious moderator in your staff. Shame on you.


Now some words to you, Jose Rico:

First of all I apologize if I wrongly accused you for being MpgL62. I apparently got wrong information.

You have made accusations against me too. I think it is about time we set some things straight here.
Manuel P. González López have made the drawings on your website as you correctly pointed out. About 12 years ago he kindly offerered me to use them too. I didn't want to for two obvious reasons. First of all I didn't want to use drawings that you have and also out of respect to you. It serves no purpose of having the same. Secondly I made my own drawings which I prefered to use. That way I can get them the way I want.

I think it is about time you stop your accusations against me. A lot of what you have on your website is not proprietary as it originates from documents and other sources. I don't think you or your helpers has been running around on Bismarck measuring things and taking notes. So you have this from various sources. I have a vast archive I work from. In this archive I belive I have pretty much copies of all existing drawings of Bismarck. So I don't need any third party inferior drawings to do what I do.

In contrary to you I sit on my butt and make my own drawings. I have done that for many years. I don't get it served on a silver plate like you. I have no interest in "your" drawings whatsoever.

Have you seen the Bismarck? I have.
Have you ever seen any of the service boats used on German warships? I have, several.

I hate to break it to you, but Bismarck is not blue and the service boats are not orange like in "your" drawings. Now you learned that.

And I don't think I should start a tour down memory lane telling about what you have done over the years.

When you saw me having dark grey turret tops on Bismarck. Suddenly you got the same as you had never realised that.

Or when I made stripes that went all the way down in the waterline. Suddenly you got the same on "your" drawings.

Remember when you used your forum's swear word filter to prevent the users from writing my website address as a reference? Yes, the list is long. Captions under the drawings like me. Or when I made my crew list. I bought the list in Bundesarchiv. You could not live with that I had the crew list and you didn't. So you wrote to Malte Gaack and asked him to send you his list asap, so you could put it up on your website to match mine. I could go on and on, but bottom line is, I have never attacked you for all this. Bottom line is also that you have to live with that I and others deal with Bismarck too. I know you wont accept it, but there is plently of room for us all.

So I ask you to mind your little souvenir shop and leave me alone. I have no interest in you or your website. I have tonnes of material to work from myself.

John


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:14 am 
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You do realize that user "mgpl64" is actually Manuel P. González López, do you? I don't really give a damn weather you used Manuel's drawings as a template to make yours or not. In fact, those are very old drawings and everyone is free to use them as long as they acknowledge their source. However, and since all of this seems to bother you very much, I took a few minutes of my time (which is more than you deserve) and came up with the following.
Enjoy! and don't forget to click to enlarge. :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

Image

As for the rest of your post, it is so full of garbage that it is not even worth commenting. You wasted 10 years of your life fighting me and others for nothing, and it is clear that you are willing to waste 10 years more.

I have nothing else to talk with you.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:17 am 
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Hello to all involved and to all this topic is adressed. Somehow I have that funny feeling that there won't be a solution if all parties are going on accusing each other for things they have done or not.

I closed the other thread because the question in the subject line was answered and the thread was going nowhere, and I assume this one will be the same. If I had wanted to prevent John from defending himself, I would have simply kicked him out, but this is not how we behave here. The overall tone was that the images Manuel posted are that similar that it appears as if one was derived from the other.

Of course, everyone has the right to defend himself, but it surely doesn't help to accuse everyone for accusing. Things can get very heated and things like this in public is of no use for anyone.

I invite everyone to sort things out via e-mail, namely Manuel, José, Timothy, John and myself. You all have my e-mail address and I ask you to discuss this via this channel, putting all parties involved into CC. I believe this way we can discuss in an adult manner without making a fool of ourselves in public. If Timothy wants to participate, please keep in mind the time difference between him and us.

It's just a try, if after a few e-mails things are going off track again, we can stop it anytime. I think it is just a pity that Manuel didn't participate so far. I'd like to see his point of view.

If everyone accepts this here, and ONLY then, I ask José starting with the first mail, addressed to all of us. I will not discuss anything with just one of you as I don't want to get biased to one side or the other. I already received e-mails and PMs from other people who do not participate in this discussion and it is very difficult for me not to get confused.

Happy writing ~ Olaf!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:13 am 
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Olaf,

I have no interest in wasting any more time on you and the others. You guys started this campaign and I ask you to stop it. It is very simple. I couldn't care less what you think. I just ask you to leave me alone. This is a hobby to me and I do it for my pleasure. To you it is war and a personal interest of promoting yourself. Relax and enjoy it. There are other more important things in life than wasting it on things like this.

Jose,
I know, the truth hurts. I have never fought you. You was the one that teamed up with the hood website to try to force me off the internet. Yes, another thing from memory lane. But the list will be too long to go through it all.

No, it's not garbage. I have seen the Bismarck and it was not blue. Oh, I almost forgot. I have seen her propellers too and it was not yellow.

John


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:09 pm 
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John, you're riding yourself deeper into the sh*t with every post you make. Doesn't it occur to you that I suggested to switch to a more private channel because I didn't want to promote anyone (including myself) or anything here?

When you really couldn't care less, why then did you start this new topic? Oh, yes ... self-defense. Nothing wrong with that, but why on earth do you spice it up with things from the past? I'm sure the others do have a long memory lane as well. Do you want to read theirs here as well? I guess not.

I gave you (all) the chance to discuss everything in privacy. Now you spread your poison in public again. I think it is just better to simply ignore you.

Happy whatever ~ Olaf!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:47 pm 
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John Asmussen wrote:
And now to you Timothy Dike, the owner who feel so fine about what his forum is used for, so he even contribute himself. Without having any technical understanding or background information he is instantly able to send accusations against me.


No smear, but as someone who makes their living doing engineering drawings, I can tell the two drawings posted in the original thread came from the same source. Did you create that drawing? Surely not using Adobe Creative Suite. You may have colored the original drawing using that program, but not the line art. I will repeat, copying someone's drawing and adding some color does not make it yours.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Cadman,

Yes, I have made these line drawings and if you claim you know about doing engineering drawings it is clear that you know I'm telling the truth. Or are you just lying about your skills? You just wont accept the truth. I have challenged you to take a GIF or JPG drawing and do what I have done. You can't and you know that. You do this for political reasons, nothing else. It was a lie when you claimed you would apologise in public if I could prove I had made these line drawings. You never wanted to do that. You are not man enough to admit you was wrong. You and your forum is repulsive in every possible aspect.

Olaf,
I have made it clear I have no interest in dealing with you or any of the others. Not here, not elsewhere.

I have made my point. Stay away and leave me alone. I have nothing further to say. Go find something more fruitful to spend your time on. There is no need to respond any further as I'm done here.

John


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:40 pm 
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What program did you use to create the drawings before you colored them John?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:48 am 
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Hmmm...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:50 am 
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Hi Cadman,

I use Adobe Illustrator. I always use that for all my drawings. Your question gives the impression that I first use a program for the drawings and then colorize them. This is not how it works. I make the drawings and fill the different parts with color in Illustrator. This is how it works. So one program for it all, plain and simple. It takes a long time to make the drawings though.

By showing the drawings in Illustrator I had hoped you could see that I have made them. But apparently you are not familiar with how it works. There is no way I could do it this way if I didn't have the original files. I of course have all the drawings as both AI and EPS files.

And just for the record. I'm not even using these drawings. You can easily see that on my website and in my books.

John


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:00 am 
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John, I'm sorry to have to say this as I am a fellow artist but what you've shown doesn't really prove that the images are the originals. I know how Illustrator works and have used for 6 years in a professional capacity. What you show COULD be explained by you simply adding a shape and then color picking the appropriate background color. Showing the entire drawing selected COULD be explained as you simply tracing the image in there with the pen tool.

I'm not trying to cut you down or start yet another argument, I'm merely pointing out how hard it is ACTUALLY prove you did the original work. It's the nature of the programs and the industry and sadly, the ease at which thieves can steal work these days. It is the bane of every artist's existance and lively hood.

Did you ever copyright the images? Can you prove that? If so that's the only real way and the only way it'd hold up in court.

I'm sorry this whole situation came to be but I felt I had to say something.

-Mike

PS, I am by NO means calling you a liar, I'm simply pointing the facts so please don't take it the wrong way.

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1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:23 am 
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Hi Mike,

Yes, and so can he so what is your point? I haven't seen you write this to him. I make it from scratch, every line and every anchor point. All the argues against me can be used against the drawings of Mr. Lopez. But that is of course not in line with the agenda in here. I will gladly show up in court as I know I would win the case. So feel free to sue me. Anyway, I'm not going to waste any more time on this as it serves no point in this forum.

Now Olaf Held think he has proven something, but he failed big time. He think that by making the lines blue he has cut it. He clearly has no understanding of this. Now he think he can mislead some people with it, but he has forgotten the anchor points in his little scam. It's pathetic.

Best regards,
John


Last edited by John Asmussen on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:56 am 
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John Asmussen wrote:
but he has forgotten the anchor points in his little scam.


John, it's not hard to convert pixels to vectors. Time consuming yes, but not hard.

John Asmussen wrote:
Manuel P. González López have made the drawings on your website as you correctly pointed out. About 12 years ago he kindly offerered me to use them too. I didn't want to for two obvious reasons. First of all I didn't want to use drawings that you have and also out of respect to you. It serves no purpose of having the same. Secondly I made my own drawings which I prefered to use. That way I can get them the way I want.


Like I said, the drawings clearly come from the same source. Drafters sometimes simplify their drawings for clear viewing at a certain scale. Close lines are simplified, complex objects are reduced to eliminate the blob effect, and some creative license is taken to show the objects. Rarely would two drafters come up with drawings that are virtually a carbon copy of each other. The similarities in your drawings are uncanny. You can overlay your images with the others and they line up perfectly in most features. You should give proper credit to Mr. López.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:12 am 
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Hello everybody,

@ Cadman,

I agree with you Timothy.

Manuel surely deserves his credits :thumbs_up_1:

And he is NOT the only one which deserves his credits and recognitions ... and more to come on this one soon ...

Bye Antonio :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:33 am 
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... than the Admiral Hipper I released on 2007 with Abram Joslin as my drawing maker ...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:35 am 
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... and the Scharnhorst I have released on 2004 with Andrea Toller as drawing maker ... were even a wrong intermediate drawing ( wrong !!! ) has been copied ...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:35 am 
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Cadman wrote:
You should give proper credit to Mr. López.

I don't think that would be necessary anymore Timothy, since he has just now changed the drawing in question on his website to a new one. The drawing that now appears in the following link is not the same that appeared only a couple of hours ago (see image attached on my previous post above) :cool_2:

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/p ... elarge.gif

Hopefully the new creation is of his own and not taken from someone else.


Last edited by José M. Rico on Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:49 am 
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Rico,

I think you should stop your lies and stop using your forum to attack me as you have done in over a decade now.

John


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:04 pm 
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Cadman,

I again demand that you remove my drawings and remove any links to my website. You have no permission to show this in your forum.

John


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:54 pm 
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I reiterate that posting parts of images for discussion is also covered and allowed under US copyright as part of the Fair Use clause WHEN PROPERLY ATTRIBUTED. You can demand removal all you want, but if it's properly attributed and follows the fair use guidelines I posted in the Bismarck thread you have nothing but hot air and bluster.

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