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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:28 pm 
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508medway- let it go mate. Did you not read Mal's last comment ? " All my research is my own. If it is in error, than that is my fault and I totally accept any blame. But in the meantime.....I am getting on with trying to do something constructive about filling a big gap in the reference material of our hobby. I leave it to the rivet counters and semi-professional experts, to confuse issues on this site."

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:44 pm
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Location: UK
But who is sowing the confusion?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:48 am 
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Stirring up trouble a month after the last reply?

Well, back to counting rivets...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:04 am 
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Location: Australia
Wg Cdr Luddite wrote:
508medway- let it go mate. Did you not read Mal's last comment ? " All my research is my own. If it is in error, than that is my fault and I totally accept any blame. But in the meantime.....I am getting on with trying to do something constructive about filling a big gap in the reference material of our hobby. I leave it to the rivet counters and semi-professional experts, to confuse issues on this site."


Luddite, I read it and unlike him, I am getting on trying to do something constructive by pointing out basic errors of fact which mislead people into believing items in his books to be true when they are not. Mal states he has 50 years of research but did not know of the existence and work carried out by Professor Dakin who was the RAN’s Technical Director of Camouflage during WW2. I suggested he check it out as it included his work on such classes as cruisers. He obviously did not do this. If he had, he would have found the same treasure trove of information which I am happily posting onto forums for anyone wanting such information. Neither he nor you would have to leave home to do it either as it is all available for download from the National Archives of Australia in various pdfs.

As we are talking of some problems in his latest book and the others, read on for a sample of the anomalies.

Mal says he has taken on board comments from others re colours etc. but still has some colours wrong, even more so now in the case of 507A/G10. If you care to look at other posts on this Forum, you will see that knowledge of the RN’s colours has increased considerably in the last couple of years from more data becoming available from both the British and Australian Archives.

Pattern 507B was actually the Home Fleet colour during most of the inter war period, 507A being introduced in Jan 1939 as a less glossy version of 507B. Also, Admiralty records show that 507B, 507A and G10 are one and the same colour. The only difference being the level of gloss.

The original 507A in existence when WW1 commenced was dropped sometime before 1926. The actual date hasn’t been ascertained yet. However Fleet Orders in 1926 state that 507B is the Home Fleet colour. This was a pure grey. The WW2 colours known as Pattern 507A, B and C all used a blue black paste by the start of WW2 with the one used in 507B/A/G10 being known as Home Fleet blue black paste.

The records also show that G45 & 507C are one and the same colour. The only difference being the level of gloss. Mal’s idea that RN G45 was a light olive green is nonsense. Does he have documentary evidence of the green colour?

There are more colour problems if you would like to hear about them.

HMAS Australia 1945 and 1947. Mal talks of her being in MS2 and MS3. Two colours which were replaced in 1943.

In 1928, he has Australia in MS4A and also Adelaide in 1939. That colour did not exist then. BTW Isn’t this book supposed to be WW2?

In 1942, Australia & Canberra were not in the RAN colour Chicago Blue. There is a note from Dakin that Australia and Canberra were painted in USN paint by the Americans when they joined up with them and Canberra was still in this colour when lost. The RAN introduced Chicago Blue in 1943 after Dakin had carried out trials in 1941 and early 1942 which determined that a dark dirty blue grey was the best colour. The RAN adopted their version of the USN paint in 1943. Prior to then, RAN ships left Australia in RAN camouflage and after joining the Americans were painted with their paint

Adelaide in 1940 in B6 and 1941 in G10 and B6. G10 came into use in 1943 and records show that Australia didn’t receive a sample of B6 until May 1942.

Hobart in 1941, “the main camouflage was altered by the elimination of areas of 507b, leaving the ship in 507C and 507A.” Funny that as 507b and 507a are the same colour!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:31 am 
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508medway wrote:
... I am happily posting onto forums for anyone wanting such information.


That would be most instructive

508medway wrote:
... and records show that Australia didn’t receive a sample of B6 until May 1942.


Incidentally, did you come across an actual color sample of B6? I'm really like to know what it looked like.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:20 am 
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EJFoeth wrote:
Incidentally, did you come across an actual color sample of B6? I'm really like to know what it looked like.


WR on Steelnavy wrote:
I have never found a colour card of B6, but did find it used in three official RN camouflage sheets. These were , prepared for a Hunt Class destroyer, the cruiser Belfast and the cruiser Jamaica. The sheets were painted in colour; they were not copies but the originals. The Hunt design sheet I still have; somewhere.
The color in the three sheets are a close match to one another, and are similar to B5 but of a lighter tone.


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