The Ship Model Forum

I think some of us believe wording such as the attached means they are the same colour. Also the formula for 507A & G10 are the same as is G45 & 507C.

I'm not a RN paint expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I can absolutely confirm that it takes time to do proper research and to make sure you are not introducing MORE incorrect information into the human knowledge base. It's easier with this type of knowledge to know what's wrong than to know what's right.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hi Richard. I might be mis-remembering (I have a lot on my mind just now) but I thought we had a slightly vaguer worded one than the one Michael attached below. I'm away from my references at the moment and to be honest I wish I hadn't responded to this thread at all now, but it bothers me when suggestions are made (not by yourself, I hasten to add - you have been nothing but helpful!) that I don't care about what we're making. Were that the case I'd still be manufacturing the old grey B5 - and no having it on sale has cost me customers.
I hope we can reach a consensus (and by that I mean a set of measured colour values we can agree up) in the next couple of months as discussed outwith here




Hi Michael, I forgot about that document. My apologies! I do have a copy on my hard drive at home but there are so many of these snippets going around that this one slipped my mind.



This is it in a nutshell Tracy. I am convinced that evidence doesn't stack up in a number of cases, but am not yet ready to state what our position is on all of these colours. We (Richard, Michael, Sean, Lyndsay and myself) have a pretty good idea what B5 looks like. It was the first one that rang some alarm bells and the first one I personally focussed on. Know what it should look like isn't the same as being able to make new paint though - but I know where I can get an original (admittedly aged) sample that definitely was B5 to begin with (and that really is the nub of the issue here - I/we suspect some collected but perhaps un-labelled samples of colours were assigned to colour designations known to exist some decades ago but may have been misidentified) to measure and go from there.

I've also accepted that Colourcoats' 507C had drifted a little. I don't know when - we acquired no stock of this colour from WEM, nor did we get any references so at the time I had no frame of reference. It's also an isolated problem. I haven't yet seen an original 507C sample but Richard has, tells me it compares well with Snyder & Short (which I've bought in the time between buying Colourcoats and summer when we started digging in to this). I trust Richard so our latest batch in manufacture now is rematched to S&S.

What it boils down to is being a business. I expect no sympathy, understanding nor brand loyalty from customers if I diverge from Snyder & Short who are widely respected and still end up with colours that people find questionable, so I need to be comfortable I'm right and avoid making knee-jerk decisions

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James Duff
Sovereign Hobbies Ltd
http://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk

Current build:
HMS Imperial D09 1/350
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151

I will give all sorts of props and thanks to John (Snyder) & Randy (Short) for the work they've done. But all of us are human and can make mistakes, or rely on something we were sure was accurate at the time. I surprised John once by demonstrating he was wrong about something in US paint, but he's corrected me more times and it's really about having multiple eyeballs on things.

The trick with stuff like this in today's age is to be open about it and bring the sources out for people to buy into themselves or discuss until the matter is settled. This, however, isn't at all efficient for a company and can in fact cost sales by aiding competitors. We may desire historical accuracy, but it really is quite messy when one gets down to it. My goal, silly as it may seem, is to use British sourced paints and detail sets on all of my Royal Navy subjects so you do tend to have my loyalty,* small as that order or two may be.

* it also helps that I've seen your posts here and appreciate the effort you are putting into accuracy.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

It's not the 507 C that is flawed it's the G 45 that looks yellowed to my eye. I bought it from WEM. The S&S paint chip is also yellowed.
John