Jeff Sharp wrote:
Egilman wrote:
.To my judgment, there is way too much blue on way too many portions of that ship that were completely undamaged and clearly present as 5-S Sea Blue to make any claim that any portion of her was in 5-D nor support the conclusion that the ship was anything but completely finished in Ms. 11, 5-S Sea Blue....EG
EG, exactly which portions of the ship are you looking at "that were completely undamaged and clearly present as 5-S Sea Blue"? Keep in mind the footage you are using as your basis for your argument of her raising was filmed in June '42, six months after the attack.
The starboard hull, the Stacks etc etc, I clearly pointed out what I was showing in my previous post. And yes, the Wee Vee portion was filmed by John Ford on the 9th of June when she was moved into dry dock. You are aware that she was refloated in May? May 19th to be exact? three weeks prior to her dry docking?
Jeff Sharp wrote:
Six months of her hull being under water.
Irrelevant on my opinion, her hull was dry when they were moving her.....
Jeff Sharp wrote:
Also, if she was in MS-11 as you claim then why did she have 5-L on all her upper works above the top of the stacks?
Measure 11 as ordered in the September revised Ships-2 was exactly as Measure 1 substituting 5-S Sea Blue and 5-H Haze Grey
The documents are there specifying what the ordered Measure 11 actually was.... I do not see how anyone can argue otherwise. Ships at that time that were painted in overall 5-S were repainting to what Kimmel said in his memo, which was subject to the revision to Ships-2, essentially, they jumped the gun so to speak...
My evidence of this....
https://www.shipcamouflage.com/ships2_1_41_chapter3.htmShips-2 January '41,
General Directions Common to All Systems.
All approximately vertical surfaces above the top of the stacks shall be painted Light Gray 5-L in all the systems. Some of the plates are incorrect in that they fail to show this detail.
Dark Gray System. (Measure 1)
Paint all vertical surfaces, such as sides of hull, sides of superstructure, stacks, lower masts (but not pole masts), etc., Dark Gray 5-D.
https://www.shipcamouflage.com/ships2_9_41_chapter2.htmShips-2, rev. 1 September '41,
General Directions Common to All Measures.
All pole masts and their yards, and slender upper works above approximately the top of the superstructure masses shall be painted Haze gray 5-H and measures 12, 13 and 14.
Sea Blue System. (Measure 11)
Vertical surfaces from boot-topping to top of superstructure masses, pole masts, yards, slender upper works above level of top superstructure masses, Sea Blue, 5-S.
Horizontal surfaces, Deck Blue, 20-B.
PACIFIC FLEET CONFIDENTIAL NOTICE NO.15 CN-41 10/6/41....
Paragraph 9 (last paragraph)
9.
Pending receipt of comprehensive instructions from the Bureau of Ships, no change is contemplated in the present directive providing for the general application of Measure 1 to ships in the U. S. Pacific Fleet. However, inasmuch as the manufacture of Formula 5-D has been discontinued, painting will of necessity be limited to touching up with available supplies of this paint, until general issue of the new formulas, 5-S, 5-0 and 5-H has been initiated. Ships having exhausted supplies of formula 5-D, will requisition sufficient Formula 5-S, to apply Measure 1A of paragraph 2 above, and will report application of this measure to Type Commanders. For the present, paint will not be applied to the wood decks of ships other than those designated to carry out measures outlined in reference (f ).
General instructions for painting all vessels in this Fleet will be promulgated in the near future.
H. E. KIMMEL.
The section Kimmel was referencing in the above directions....
Experimental measures are now being applied, pursuant to reference (d), to ships listed:
(a) Measure 1A
(PORTER,
FLUSSER) - Apply Formula 5-S to all vertical and horizontal surfaces except decks.
Paint steel weather decks with bluish-gray deck paint, reference (e), when available.
This was interpreted by some to mean drop the Light grey/Haze grey on the upper works, but to others it was meant to follow the current orders in hand which was the original Ships-2 pending the revised Ships-2 coming in the near future....
Very confusing yes and all we have left is what the commanders actually ordered as represented by the colors their ships actually were.... 5-H haze grey tops were a part of Measure 11 according to Ships-2 rev. 1.....
The documents speak for themselves.... The fact that some ships dropped the Haze grey tops is a representation of how much confusion was going on in what the admiral wanted his ships to look like... And a big part of that was created by admiral Kimmel himself...