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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:44 am 
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I came across this video on Youtube of her leaving Portsmouth recently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfUScnsKfro

As per screenshot below she seems to be sporting an unintentional low contrast digital camouflage scheme:

Attachment:
HMS Queen Elizabeth.jpg


The only question is what are the correct shades of grey?! :smallsmile:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:43 am 
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Mr C,

What you are looking at and I am sure have already guessed, is a glaring example of someone not blending in several "lot" numbers of paint to a mix before carrying out a paint job! I have seen it happen. Let's hope that no-one reading your post runs away with the idea that what is seen is common practice (well at least, it shouldn't be)!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:09 am 
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Looks more like fresh paint over faded paint. If new paint batches are that far apart, it isn't the same colour. Paint on ships fades and dulls very quickly. When some areas need work or touch up, you get this patch work pattern because there isn't always time to paint the whole ship as it takes days, even weeks, to completely paint a ship this large. I've seen ships come back from deployment with at least 5 different shades of patches from different touch ups over the 4-6 months away.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:17 pm 
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I found another video taken the same day as the one in the initial post but from the opposite side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZubPHOkf5A

Same story there, unintentional digital camouflage pattern!:

Attachment:
HMS Queen Elizabeth different paint 2.jpg


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:45 am 
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We have access to three separate copies of BS381C 1996 edition. Whilst the tabulated colour values which anyone who can spell "paint" should be using in industry, the colour chips for BS381C-676 are clearly different in all three copies.

There is zero uncertainty about the intended appearance of the BS381C-676 Light Weatherwork Grey as that's precisely what CIELAB values are for.

Image

I suspect this is just commercial paint suppliers not taking a great deal of pride in their product. Paint will weather to a certain extent, but modern day manufacture is quite difficult using pigments which are not colourfast as they're commercially hard to come by as liquid tints which is how everyone in business uses them - artists can get the other ones in inconvenient dry pigment form. Nobody uses those in commercial paint manufacture any more.

Quality of commercial tints can vary a bit insomuch as the pigment density can shift particularly with the cheaper stuff. You can accurate set up your paint mixing machine with one set of tints on the carousel to precisely meter in whatever it takes to get you within a very small Delta E of the published figures reliably, then once you change the bottles over when the tint runs out the machine meters out the same proportions again and you get an obviously different colour. If you bother to check and actually care, you can fix it. If you spend extra on better quality tints which are more consistent batch to batch you can mostly avoid it. If you don't care and buy cheap tints your batches might vary quite a lot, actually.

Even if suppliers do care, if they're comparing their dried samples to the colour chips in their copy of BS381C rather than to the CIELAB values, then there's a good chance their batches will look different to those from another supplier due to the poor consistency in BS381C copies. In fairness, BS381C does tell you that the chips are for indication rather than matching purposes and bigger, more expensive matching cards are available (but perhaps also crap quality). Many perhaps assume, however, that having paid £250 already for a copy of BS381C that the quality of the chips should be good enough.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:33 pm 
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That's the most likely explanation alright James. Maybe the MoD Procurement Department made them buy the cheapest paint?!

This view would remind you of Tirpitz's wartime berth in Faettenfjord:

Attachment:
HMS-Queen-Elizabeth-Glen-Mallan-4-1536x788.jpg


The difference in paint shaded is still clearly visible.

Photo from:
https://www.navylookout.com/hms-queen-elizabeth-arrives-on-the-clyde-to-embark-munitions/


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:14 am 
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Mr Church,

Bearing in mind James Duff's knowledge of his subject, one cannot disagree with the position that he has taken on the matter. That said, I still feel that "someone" failed to mix the paint "lots" as it became necessary and subsequent to my first post on the subject would offer the thought that the Royal Navy may have lost the "art" of painting a large warship despite the fact that the service has had them since the passing of the "big" fixed-wing 'carriers HMS's ARK ROYAL and EAGLE.

Although of little consequence, one does wonder as to the "why" such large areas of the hull need "touching up" now though. After all, QE has not been in service that long. Still, to take the line "Jackie" Fisher might have done: "It doesn't matter how good she looks, it's whether her people and systems are efficient!" They will have to be, bearing in mind her published deployment!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:48 pm 
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81542 wrote:
Although of little consequence, one does wonder as to the "why" such large areas of the hull need "touching up" now though. After all, QE has not been in service that long.
81542


Although I wasn't aware of paint supplier issues as bad as Jamie describes, I am familiar with mtce and routine practices of several navies, including the RN.

Ships are constantly being painted. One of the recent photos shows where the giant badge was painted over on the front of the ski ramp. When ships are in port for more than a few days, mtce gets done. Often that includes painting over rust streaks or scrapes from tugs and piers that didn't move when requested.

The question then becomes, who does the painting? At sea, obviously the sailors. Alongside, not so obvious. In foreign ports there are local labourers that can be hired. At home ports, there are dockyard mateys and civilian contractors. The next question is, where does the paint come from? Large orders can come from base supply in gallon or multi gallon containers. Small orders may come from a local supplier. If you're only touching up a spot that's maybe 20' x 40', you might only need 2 gallons. You might not bother mixing two cans from the same batch. And you'd most likely be correct not to. But if you need to paint a larger area, you may need many gallons, from different batches, in which case, you'd better mix them together. In the case of QE, the amount of new painted areas is fairly large. To my eye, the new paint all looks like it was mixed together or came from a single large batch of pre mixed colour. However, I will say that photos aren't always good at showing more subtle differences in hue and tone, so I may be wrong.

A final note, I still maintain that paint on ships fades extremely quickly. I've seen differences between patches that were painted from the same can less than 2 weeks apart.

Oh, one more short story, the Japanese get the award for the freshest paint job. On a visit to NYC one year, I boarded a JDS destroyer and could smell the paint drying! Sailors were walking around with cups and small brushes constantly touching up everything!! It was the cleanest deck I've ever seen!! Even cleaner than fresh non skid!! The surprise came when I went inside. Dirty white walls with laundry hanging everywhere!! Like night and day!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:55 am 
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Exactly Admhawk, as soon as the painting crew put down their brushes or paint rollers at the end of the job, the paint they applied starts to fade. Especially in a maritime environment.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:56 am 
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Some footage of 'Big Lizzie' transiting the Suez Canal recently. Some of it filmed from one of the road bridges over the canal and some from onboard. Thus giving a decent impression of the colours of her deck and her superstructure details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8D-Aa2SIf8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n6u5gVb6Bc&t=107s

A couple of screenshots as per below for ease of viewing, copyright rests with original owner:

Attachment:
HMS Queen Elizabeth 2021 July 6th Suez Canal 1.jpg


Attachment:
HMS Queen Elizabeth 2021 July 6th Suez Canal 14.jpg


Should be a useful reference for anyone modelling her, would love to see a 1/350 kit appear at some point. It would make for a good painting challenge on a model to achieve an 'in active service' look like the real thing. Interesting that the area surrounding her funnel tops seems to be deck grey and not black. The pipe outlets themselves appear a heat resistant aluminium colour. She probably has emissions scrubbers fitted so perhaps there is not a great deal of exhaust?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:11 am 
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Admhawk wrote:
Looks more like fresh paint over faded paint. If new paint batches are that far apart, it isn't the same colour. Paint on ships fades and dulls very quickly. When some areas need work or touch up, you get this patch work pattern because there isn't always time to paint the whole ship as it takes days, even weeks, to completely paint a ship this large. I've seen ships come back from deployment with at least 5 different shades of patches from different touch ups over the 4-6 months away.


Indeed, I quite agree with that:

Personal picture of touch ups.

Same brand of paint, the differences fade, but it takes a very long time, depending on where in the world you sail too, often the deck is repainted entirely before.

Image

But for QE, the tone looks very different in this photo

Image

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