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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:09 pm 
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The GRP hull of Kiev is not what it should be and as mentioned some remedial work has to be done before considering the installation of any hardware. First off was the forward knuckle, seen here on the drawing.
This knuckle differs slightly from port to starboard.
Image
A styrene profile was lifted from the drawing and put onto the model. This was used to give a reasonably true representation of the knuckle and marked in pencil.
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A small cutting disc was used to cut along the line
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A profile was used for the port knuckle and the procedure repeated.
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In order to maintain the sweep of the hull upwards to the bottom edge of the knuckle a section of hull needed to be removed. You may well ask, "Why doesn't the whole lot collapse in” The reason being the two ends are supported .The bow section will be cut last once the sides are completed.
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Due to the internal shape, aluminium mesh was used which could be easily moulded. This was cut in 75mm lengths approximately 25mm wide and tacked on with fillers. When set the inside was covered over, again with fillers, followed by the outside as seen here. Although not as yet sanded down smooth. The shape as it should be is now in place. For the record the anchor haws is in the wrong place but that’s another job for another day. Next job is to sort out the misshapen angle deck.[ not as bad as it first appeared. }
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Dave Wooley


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:35 pm 
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As usual a fine bit of modelling Dave, glad to see her on the move, :woo_hoo: :woo_hoo:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:45 am 
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The hull is looking very well.

Certainly a superb hull with paint to come
:thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

...A drink for the Modeller for his good work...
:lol_spit_1:


Jef :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:23 pm 
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When I bought this hull of Kiev three years ago I was fully aware of the shortcomings in its accuracy and was prepared to do what it takes to correct the deficiencies. . Now for the next remedial job of realigning the angle flight deck overhang support. This was drooping 4 degrees downwards and needed to be lifted so as the deck would fit accurately across the hull. As this was an integral part of the hull for a considerable length of the hull it was not feasible to just lift the overhang to its correct level simply by using some form of extended bulkheads or timber cross bracings as this would have the effect of distorting the hull even more. Drastic action was need and this involved separating the overhang from the hull and lifting the outer edge upwards. This done wedges were placed in the gap created to stop the overhang falling back and wire mesh cut and folded as reinforcement for the whole job .

Image
Image
Once set around the mesh the overhang was quite ridged and at the correct level. The next job was to sort out the number of inaccuracies in the outer shell of the hull, which needed to be undertaken at this early stage if this model was to be reasonably close to that of the Kiev.
Image
Dave Wooley


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:31 pm 
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Dave, Another fine update, if it needs correcting , your the man, nice work, :jump_1: :jump_1: :woo_hoo: :woo_hoo: :wave_1: :thumbs_up_1:

As to what Jef said about the drink, I think you get enough with Howie. :heh: :heh: :heh: :lol_3:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:01 am 
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Indeed, great work there Dave! It's proceeding quite well I see. Lots of work, but with your expertise I don't even doubt the outcome!
If you wish I can send you a book from Pavlov about the Baku/Gorshkov class. Maybe it's of some help with details.

Regards
Roel

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:10 am 
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Neptune wrote:
Indeed, great work there Dave! It's proceeding quite well I see. Lots of work, but with your expertise I don't even doubt the outcome!
If you wish I can send you a book from Pavlov about the Baku/Gorshkov class. Maybe it's of some help with details.

Regards
Roel

Thanks Roel that would be helpfull. I'll PM my address . I must admit project 1143 Kiev design is far from simple and the more information the better.
Dave Wooley l


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 Post subject: very cool!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:28 pm 
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Hi Guys,
Nice work Dave!
I did not realize what I have been missing!
Keep up the great work; very interesting!
Tony Bunch

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:10 pm 
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The forward shape of the angle flight deck is peculiar and distinctive to Kiev and supports the AK-130s gatlings. The basic GRP hull is OK but this part was down on the list for re-shaping. Not only was it the wrong shape but also had the disadvantage, like the angle deck of sloping down wards. On this picture the angle deck has been corrected it was now the turn of these forward platforms for more of the same . Only this time timber was added to lift the sides up . .
Image
A section was cut away
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According to the photos and drawing this forward structure slopes slightly backwards into the hull. Why this is so is unknown.
Image
Image
Other alterations involved the flushing of the starboard knuckle. On the GRP hull this took the form of a lip moulded into the side of the hull which runs almost two-thirds the length of the hull. .Fillers was added to flush the lip off but retain the knuckle as per the full size ship
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Dave Wooley


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:18 pm 
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Its a lot of hard work Dave, but you will get there in the end. :wave_1: :wave_1: :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:10 am 
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Dave, did you know about these shortcomings when you first bought the hull?

I'm very impressed with the remedial work, but given the scale of them I think I'd've scrapped the plastic and built my own.

Still, it's looking better and better now! Good stuff.

Andy


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:05 am 
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Andy G wrote:
Dave, did you know about these shortcomings when you first bought the hull?

I'm very impressed with the remedial work, but given the scale of them I think I'd've scrapped the plastic and built my own.

Still, it's looking better and better now! Good stuff.

Andy

Hi Andy Oh yes I was fully aware of what I was letting myself into. I suppose the only way to describe this GRP hull is that it is not a bad hull just some part of it are wrong. The saving grace is in the fact that it is basically true, and free from serious twists in the body shell. After building Moskva from scratch and having a lines and body plan for the Kiev I was tempted to build the Kiev from scratch but this hull came available and here we are. Although to be fair I've had three years to think about it. Once all these "remedial" jobs are out of the way the "serious" construction work can begin but for the moment I feel it's useful for others to see some behind the scenes corrections and to know that this sort of work can be undertaken providing it's reasonably well planed before hand. With all due respect to Geoff Holt on his fine work on the GRP hull of HMS Victorious these changes need to be well planed and not dealt with as you progress other wise it can become frustrating. For Kiev a list was compiled of all the changes and what was needed to form each correction avoiding were possible the prospect of impinging on other corrections.
There is still more of the same as the next series of photos will show. Thanks for asking and you raised some interesting points.
Dave Wooley


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 Post subject: I Like your Ship.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:48 am 
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Hi Dave
I like your Kiev.
I like the idea of an aircraft carrier that has the look of a ship also.
A more modern ship with a little bit of yesteryear in the way it looks. VERY NICE!

Good to see you have the hull adjustments in hand.
I see you are laying strengthening in the hull bottom? I thought the hull looked quite thick. Do you normally do this?

Phil.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:11 am 
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quote="Kiwimedic"]Hi Dave
I like your Kiev.
I like the idea of an aircraft carrier that has the look of a ship also.
A more modern ship with a little bit of yesteryear in the way it looks. VERY NICE!

Good to see you have the hull adjustments in hand.
I see you are laying strengthening in the hull bottom? I thought the hull looked quite thick. Do you normally do this?

Phil.[/quote]
Hi Phil the bottom reinforcement was already in but it's a welcomed addition as it does provide strength to such a large and relatively thin hull.
Dave Wooley


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:08 pm 
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The overhang for the angled deck is the next remedial job undertaken and is supported in a particular way with a sloping section, which was not represented in the GRP hull. In order to make sure this section was able to be secured on the two edges, strips of 2mm ply were used to allow this to happen and can be seen in this photo.
Image
The next job was to cut from 2mm ply sheet the sloping sections starting with the after length.
Image
Each cut section was trimmed to suit until the entire length was fitted.
Image
According to the photos of Kiev and confirmed by the drawing the underside bottom line of the sloping section is not a continuous straight line but alters shape slightly at each end. What you see is only a timber support backing for plastic sheet. On this sheet all the vents will be cut along with other openings but that another job some ways down the line. The next job is to install all the electrics including shafts, rudders , four motors. and cross members for the deck. there are numerous portholes and several openings in the side of the hull but these will be deferred untill the deck supports are fitted in order to give the hull more rigidity.
Image
Dave Wooley


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:32 pm 
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I see your getting very technical Dave, useing a tape measure, :lol_3: :lol_3: keep up the good work, looking good, :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

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 Post subject: Dave's Kiev
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:30 am 
For ARH this. The tape's just for show, Dave doesn't know how it works yet. He still has problems, as I do, with a pencil.

HAB


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:26 am 
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That tape measure is just for show. :lol_4:
Dave Wooley


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:12 pm 
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The next step after the bearers are fitted is to find out were the opening into the hull is going to be. This may sound a straight forward exercise. As a job it's not difficult but the trick is to set it for maximum access and minimum disruption to the deck. On Moskva a one-piece styrene deck was used with only the area covered by the superstructure for access into the interior of the hull, this was not a good idea. Styrene is superb to finish but this sort of material in large expanses is unstable. So for Kiev 2mm marine ply timber was the material of choice.
Image
The natural break in the deck is formed were the superstructure starts, which is just behind the SS-N-12 launches and terminates just before the after elevator.
Image
Using the GRP superstructure {Not going to be made use of in the finished model ] this formed the datum were all other parts of the deck arrangement is set out from.
Image
Across the deck is a set of white lines, set at an angle . These will form the outer boundary of the opening.
Image
Image
With the opening made. Additional beares were added beneath the deck with just enough exposed to allow the deck to rest on the bearer.
Image
The deck is back in place and the cuts dividing the flight deck will become almost invisible. Yet there remains plenty of room for access to load up the hull comfortably with the largest batteries and added ballast. Before removing the deck, for fitting of the shafts, motors and electrics the area that is removable will also have bearers fitted which will reduce any chance of this part of the deck warping. That’s for next time. Also next time how right forward at the bow had to be altered to conform with the original and how the stern around the shafts was also altered.
Image
Dave Wooley


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:37 pm 
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Hi Dave, your beginning to make great inroads in to the build, looking good so far, looking forward to more soon. :jump_1: :jump_1: :woo_hoo: :woo_hoo: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

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