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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:00 am 
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Location: campbell river.b.c canada
i received my plans today they came in the wrong scale,and there is lots of discrepancys.there are 4 sheets and the only distance that is right is the beam,it is the same on all sheets,the length verys 1.5" .the plans are in 1/100 scale and the length should be 73.5" but the deck plan is 75.5" the hull lines one is correct at 73.5 .i have to scale these down to 1/144 but the top and side elevations are the wrong length,not only that the top elevation has the deck assemblys on it and thay do not match the top view.the plans are for graff spree and i would like to do the sheer as of 1944 which has a atlantic bow,capped funnel and a differant bridge area.i knew the funnel and bow where differant but the bridge area came as a supprise,i had no idea this was differant as of 1940.i have a rough idea how it looks but i will have to find some good drawings of this area.the reason for naming this thread deutchland class is because if i cannot find good enough drawing for sheer she will be graf spree.p.s i have one more sheet of plans coming it is supposed to be sheer as of 1945 i hope it is right.i think i can start cutting frames once i get the hull lines sheet scaled down.


Attachments:
File comment: the funnel here is bigger than the one below,both of these sheets are 1/100
p1.jpg
p1.jpg [ 132.95 KiB | Viewed 7436 times ]
p2.jpg
p2.jpg [ 118.59 KiB | Viewed 7436 times ]
File comment: these frames do not match the ones on the hull lines sheet ,they are bigger
p3.jpg
p3.jpg [ 111.83 KiB | Viewed 7436 times ]


Last edited by russclark on Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:59 am 
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Hi Russ,

what a pitty with the drawings. I constantly make such experiences even with original drawings. Sometimes they are so off that I think it must have been an anti-espionage mean ....?!

About Admiral Scheer: you may want to contact these guys at

http://www.admiral-scheer.de/

http://sophie-caesar.de/

http://sophie-caesar.de/admiral-scheer-mein-modell/

If you need assistance in translating your emails I´ll be here to help you! But I guess someone should be english speaking there ...

Bye and a Happy New Year 2011!

Bernd.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:45 pm 
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Location: campbell river.b.c canada
thanks for the info bernd.every thing is helpful.keep up the great work on your hull,and the best in the new year.i got the plans rescaled, some sheets had to be done twice,everything is now within 1/4" of each other. i will not do any work on the hull until i get the drawings for the sheer,she must be a little longer and have more sheer forward ,thats a little bit of a pun :big_grin: .,so my hull plans will have to have a little modifcation.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:00 pm 
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russclark wrote:
thanks for the info bernd.every thing is helpful.keep up the great work on your hull,and the best in the new year.i got the plans rescaled, some sheets had to be done twice,everything is now within 1/4" of each other. i will not do any work on the hull until i get the drawings for the sheer,she must be a little longer and have more sheer forward ,thats a little bit of a pun :big_grin: .,so my hull plans will have to have a little modifcation.

Hi Russ It's good to see that you have managed to re-scale your new plans successfully but not getting quite the drawings you wanted is frustrating..In the past I have been aware that even copying a drawing can in fact alter the dimensions sufficiently to throw other parts of the plans out .My confidence in accurate drawings is tempered by the knowledge that constant copying does make the accuracy suspect. Non the less good luck with your build.
Dave Wooley :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:19 pm 
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hi dave ,yes i am happy with the drawings now.i am looking forward to building in 1/144, every thing a little bigger,but it means more detail to add.i have a photo shop program on my computer so if there is a differance between two drawings i can take a pic of it crop it and make it come out the right size.it sometimes takes a few print outs ,but i enjoy doing that sort of thing.
I know there has been lots of builds done from start to finish and was wondering if there would be any intrest in this one.if so i would keep a detailed report on the progress ,I enjoy doing that also.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:25 pm 
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russclark wrote:
hi dave ,yes i am happy with the drawings now.i am looking forward to building in 1/144, every thing a little bigger,but it means more detail to add.i have a photo shop program on my computer so if there is a differance between two drawings i can take a pic of it crop it and make it come out the right size.it sometimes takes a few print outs ,but i enjoy doing that sort of thing.
I know there has been lots of builds done from start to finish and was wondering if there would be any intrest in this one.if so i would keep a detailed report on the progress ,I enjoy doing that also.

Hi Russ Yes please keep a picture log of your build from start to finish this is what helps in understanding your method of scratch building . It all helps. All the best to you for the New Year .
Dave Wooley :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:21 pm 
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yikes one has to really check and double check plans and drawings.i have been rescaling my plans down to 1/144 from 1/100.i have every thing done and thay appeared to be good,then i started working on hull frames,opps a problum. on my plan the frames are drawn as half frames for the forward ,then the stern frames are shown on the other side,looks good but the stern frames are smaller.see pic #1.if i had not found this when i cut the frames, half of them would have been 1/8"smaller.Not good.second pic is a mirror image of the right side of first pic,i did this for the redone other side also .them i spliced them together to make a complete frame the third pic.the last pic is the first 12 frames and the aft 13 frames.i printed out 14 of these ,now all i have to do is trim each one and stick it on plywood and start cutting.i will not be able to cut the formost frames because thay are for graf spree not sheer as of 1941-45.does anyone have a drawing or any idea how much more sheer there is and how much more length. She is 610 ft 1939 is she a little longer with the atlantic bow.
i made the frames 1/4" smaller to allow for sheeting.i am not sure if i will glue them to the center board or cut and slide them on,if i glue them on one side at a time i will have to trim 1/8" off the center board side to keep the right beam.hope this all makes sense.


Attachments:
p5.jpg
p5.jpg [ 145.05 KiB | Viewed 7220 times ]
p6.jpg
p6.jpg [ 107.66 KiB | Viewed 7220 times ]
p2.jpg
p2.jpg [ 144.31 KiB | Viewed 7220 times ]
p3.jpg
p3.jpg [ 123.01 KiB | Viewed 7220 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:17 am 
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Location: campbell river.b.c canada
please ignore this


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:40 am 
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Good work Russ!

Also interesting but not surprisingly to see the knuckle traces of the dock keels shown in the frame drawings! Are you going to include them in the model?

Bye!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:08 pm 
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hello 109 the plans show something ,but i am not sure what it is.if they where nuckles would not they be added to the outside of the hull not indented.plans show a flat bottum so what good would thay do anyhow.she would sit flat on a drydock .i will more than likly just ignore the dotted lines.i am not an expert on this and i have enough trouble with plans so i no not need more grieve,thanks for your interest :thumbs_up_1: heres a pick of hull frames ready to glue to plywood,the bow ones stop at #17 forward of this is the atlantic bow area which i am sure will be differant,just can't seem to find any info on that area.


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fff.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Hi,

the point is to lengthen the flat hull bottom over the bilge which enlarges the flat surfaces on which the ship rests while in a dry dock. It is better to spread a load onto a flat surface than onto a curved one, because on the curved one the load rests on a single point or line of an exessive load which will damgae the ship. You can see this shape on SC hull on the fotos of the capsized ship, look out for the area behind the rear end of the bilge keel.

Anyway, SC is a great modeling subject! :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:43 pm 
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Hi Russ Will this be a static or working model ? Also what type of timber will you be using for the frames ? Great to see another of your projects getting underway and this one from the very beginning just like those from the master ARH .
Dave Wooley :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:39 am 
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thanks dave, As in chess ARH.is king i am but a lowely pawn.Hi 109 i have been studying pics and drawings for days, I think the dock keels you refer to are the areas between frame 9 to 13 in the pic below.the hull sides come down and instead of a gradual curve to the keel it has a sharp tranition to a flat bottum,if this is what you mean it should be no trouble modeling them.on the side view plan they are from the rear range finder to just in front of the bridge. i still cannot find adrawing or good pics of the atlantic bow.
this is holding me up as i can't cut the hull frames


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k.jpg
k.jpg [ 140 KiB | Viewed 7093 times ]
www.jpg
www.jpg [ 103.68 KiB | Viewed 7093 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:59 pm 
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hi all, well i could'nt find any decent pics of the atlantic bow ,just some vague ones,so i reworked the graf spree drawing.i hope it is close. the anchor assembly,water brake,and capstans seem to be in differant spots. the adding of the bow adds 7 ft to real ships length 610 to 617 this is about 6/10" in 144.i am still not going to start cutting, have to make sure on the funnel and bridge,still have no drawings of these areas.if i can't find satifactory drawings and pics i will have to go with graf spree :heh: ,i have one plan still on order hopefully it will have what i need,but it is slow coming,more then likly because of christmas and new years.


Attachments:
File comment: this is graff spree plan
ss.jpg
ss.jpg [ 106.38 KiB | Viewed 7037 times ]
File comment: edited plans
s.jpg
s.jpg [ 89.46 KiB | Viewed 7037 times ]
sss.jpg
sss.jpg [ 109.58 KiB | Viewed 7037 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:07 am 
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Hi Russ,

are you sure about the bow´s profile at the top end?

Bye! :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:29 am 
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Hi Russ
great project coming from you
i know this is a very good model again. :smallsmile: :thumbs_up_1: :woo_hoo:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:12 am 
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good to hear from you norbert, bernt you are right that looks more like the bow of new jersy than s.c ,it should be more like this.


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v.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:55 pm 
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Hi Russ This is a useful puplication for working on the Scheer
Image
Dave Wooley :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Hi Russ,

I am very impressed with your meticulous planning and checking, this is going to be a really interesting build to watch and to learn from.

Andrew

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:02 pm 
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just some more getting ready to cut frames and center board.i trace all my frames and center board onto another sheet of paper,because if i screw it up i still have the original to go back to.the bow area on the center frame will stop at frame19.5,i will add a piece of fairly thick styrene for the last few inches.this is easyer than trying to shave down the 1/4 in plywood and gives a nice sharp edge to the bow.heres some pics of plans and frame work.


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f2.jpg
f2.jpg [ 136.23 KiB | Viewed 6934 times ]
f3.jpg
f3.jpg [ 122.46 KiB | Viewed 6934 times ]
File comment: tracing center board onto another sheet of paper
qq.jpg
qq.jpg [ 143.68 KiB | Viewed 6934 times ]
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