The Ship Model Forum

The thing about Scratch Building is, when you finally get to where you can do it, you feel like you can do anything. It's tremendously exciting. Sometimes I'd stay awake thinking about all the possibilities... What about creating the harbor of Rhodes with the Colossus in 1/700th scale? What the heck?

I knew that the above picture was not the correct posture, and that actually the Colossus did not stand astride the harbor as he is often depicted. I found out that archaeologists generally agree he was about 107 feet high or so, standing on a plinth that was itself probably 60 ft high. I started thinking how cool it would be to have a harbor scene with the colossus on one side, some quays, a few cargo ships, rafts, and a trireme or two... all in 700th scale. The whole thing could be about maybe 14" by 20" or so, with a height of six or seven inches. I knew I would need to learn more about ancient cargo ships and galleys, architecture, etc.... and that I would need a lot of figures. But first and last I would need a Colossus...

I thought about adapting a 35th or 32nd scale armor or military figure, and decided that was probably the best thing to do, as I have absolutely no experience in scratching figures. However, having nothing to do one night, I thought I'd just try my luck at a head and see what happened...

So, here's the X-H mark one (experimental head) construction photos:Looking kinda like one of Stephen Spielberg's aliens at this point. Nose is a little non-existant...Here's the head next to some future 1/700th scale Rhodian Greeks. Already I can tell it's too big. although it may be the smallest head I can carve. At this rate he's going to finish out between circa 160 to 190 scale feet... too big according to archaeologists. When I realized this I thought about giving up, but I decided to keep going, just for the heck of it, to see if I could actually finish it...

Here's the experimental head next to a bottle of paint for scale...Time to make a nose. This is all new territory for me.He needs to have a back to his head too...More alien than ever...The nose is filed down now, but it's too long.

I wanted the colossus to have a 'spike crown' as is depicted in traditional renderings, and also like our own Statue of Liberty. I didn't want to have to integrate this into the hair afterward, so I attached the base ring to the bald head. The spikes will be added later. Kind of strange looking. I was starting to get worried... Time for a mustache. Suddenly the mustache changed everything. Now I thought he looked almost like a civil war soldier. The facial hair is made out of styrene dremel saw crumbs. I started collecting these crumbs while building Portuguese Carrack #2. Initially I thought they might be useful for bow waves and wakes, etc. Perhaps more crisp than gel medium or celluclay. When I started the head I got the idea to try and use them for hair, etc., as they had kind of a random curly look to them.Looking more and more like Johnny Reb...

A few more head shots.This is a slightly earlier shot. I decided to glue some styrene together for the torso that I would attempt to rough out later. But, as things turned out I chickened out on the styrene torso and attempted to make one from milliput... I'll have some of those shots shortly. I felt like the head turned out ok, though he had a kind of blank expression on his face. An artist friend said that was a good quality for a monument, and typical of Greek statuary anyway. The attempts at a torso have so far been semi-disastrous... I'll post some pics soon.

Oooooookay.... you've definetly have this 'in you fingers'. He looks impressively godlike!

This is going to be very cool to watch!

This is going to be good!

Wow, very impressive. From where I sit the head is flawless. Great work!

Now this is not just model making it is artistic model making . Certainly more than just impressive it is pure creativity in mind and in form.
Dave Wooley

The major problem you'll encounter is the sheer hight of this diorama, even in 1-700, its going to be a tall order (excuse the pun) have you considered looking at 1-72 figures and figure heads ? Leading into one of the Seven Wonders of the World, the harbour wall where this huge statue stood astride is probably the easy part, again have a look at 1-72 or HO scale stone/brick effect (normally sold on a A-4 plastic sheet). What about the dangly bits ? These are 1-35 and just simply use as a base to build upon, loads more different scales on ebay.

MichelB wrote:Oooooookay.... you've definetly have this 'in you fingers'. He looks impressively godlike!

Thank you Michel. I think he has an odd resemblance to John Wilkes Booth, which is odd because Lincoln is one of my favorite presidents.

Bigdaddy Mark wrote:This is going to be very cool to watch!

I hope I can keep everyone interested!

Cliffy B wrote:This is going to be good!

Thanks Cliff. I hope so.

noplate wrote:Wow, very impressive. From where I sit the head is flawless. Great work!

Thank you sir! I won't talk you out of it! I have to say I was very glad I was able to avoid having to make ears.

Dave Wooley wrote:Now this is not just model making it is artistic model making . Certainly more than just impressive it is pure creativity in mind and in form.
Dave Wooley

Thank you Dave. High praise indeed, much appreciated. Over on the Portuguese Carrack thread someone commented about making a form come to life out of a chunk of plastic. I think my pics gave the wrong impression over there. What I do is create a waterline plate and then bulk up scrap plastic on top, but make the final layer of plastic conform to the sheer of the weather deck. So that way I have the hull in two different planes and just have to sand and carve away the excess until it all comes together. But when I read that comment it got me thinking about actually 'carving' in styrene... Could I do it? Honestly I think I got lucky with this one (so far.) I've never tried to do anything like this before. Being encouraged by some of the best modelers out there makes you want to see how far you can go! My big fear was that this thread was going to get deleted because my 'experimental head' is not part of a ship model. The ship models are coming!

aleccap wrote:The major problem you'll encounter is the sheer hight of this diorama, even in 1-700, its going to be a tall order (excuse the pun) have you considered looking at 1-72 figures and figure heads ?

Hey Alec. Good to hear from you. I did consider adapting figure parts. That was the plan, actually. Starting the head was more of a whim to see what would happen. Once I started, I just kept going.

aleccap wrote:Leading into one of the Seven Wonders of the World, the harbour wall where this huge statue stood astride is probably the easy part, again have a look at 1-72 or HO scale stone/brick effect (normally sold on a A-4 plastic sheet).

I have been looking at that actually. I also have some thoughts on making different styles of stonework myself. Haven't come to any definite decisions yet. Actually I still need to settle on a layout for the Dio as a whole. Another project I have in mind for the future is the Pharos Light House of Alexandria, which would be very similar to this effort except a big tower looming over everything instead of a big lighthouse.

aleccap wrote: What about the dangly bits ?

LOL!!!
No 'dangly bits'. He's going to have some kind of clothing on, haven't decided what yet. How much he will be clothed will depend on how well I'm able to do with the back muscles. I've started the torso (I'll post these pics soon) and am still in my lucky streak so far.
You know I'm not actually that much into Greek Culture. I'm not what you would call an 'Arty' guy. We don't have a house full of nymphs and nudes and whatnot. I'm fairly conservative, to tell the truth. Plus I've got three daughters, the youngest is 2&1/2, and as I may have mentioned I do my modeling in my living room with my family around me. Needless to say, my kids are very curious about my hobby and are always asking what I'm up to.

The whole inspiration for this was just the fact that we have figures in 1/700th scale, which made me think how cool it would be to see this statue standing over a wharf and a plaza with all the ships and figures, etc. The sense of scale would really be amazing if I could pull it off. Also I've never seen anyone do this. That was a big impetus too. I'm starting to think the actual ships will be the easy part. I've got some discarded cabinet doors that my brother-in-law gave me years ago that are perfect for dios. Some of them are quite large. I will probably be using one of these eventually. As far as height goes, I've got a place in town that does custom case lids for me. The statue itself is going to be about 4, 4&1/2 inches... If I keep this one, which I still haven't decided because he's over scale according to the archaeologists. I just don't know if I can carve anything smaller. Total height of the Dio (lid height) will probably be on the order of six inches. Which isn't too bad.

aleccap wrote:

head.jpg

These are 1-35 and just simply use as a base to build upon, loads more different scales on ebay.

Wow! I didn't even know these existed! If I had known at the time I probably would never have started the head, but instead just gone out and bought some of these.
Ok, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. After I started the head I got to thinking about the whole figure. Of course the torso and limbs scared me, and the hands and feet scared me even more, but what really scared me was the clothing. I just don't have the brain power to carve a figure from a block, keeping in mind all of the muscles and tendons, etc. AND factoring in the clothing with all of the folds, and so on. I actually carved the head about a month ago, and then set it aside. And the more I thought about completing the figure, the more impossible it sounded to me unless I could find a way to add the clothing after I create the figure. Over on the Portuguese Carrack thread I started experimenting this week with sail making, and I realized that when I had figured out how to make sails, I also had a shot at using the same technique to clothe the statue. So it was actually the sail making thing that gave me the confidence to go ahead and post these pics with the confidence that I will actually complete it.

What did I get myself into?!?!?!?...
Making a BODY???
And I posted it here! (gulp!) Honor is at stake... or at least gumption...

Ok. Here goes...My wife and kids watched 'Clash of the Titans' while I spent the evening trying to scULPT out oF miLLipUT... Don't ever try to do this. After three hours of sticky hands and material that acted like a cross between bubble gum and silly putty I wound up with a torso that the next morning looked like something the cat had hacked up. Not only that, but my skin was itchy for days, and a week later I'm still finding bits of this stuff on my fingernails... yeesh...

Of course Miliput isn't supposed to be used this way. I thought I'd try it. Now I know why I've never heard of anyone else doing it.

Ok.
Take two, the Styrene approach. A material I know, at least...For reasons which I don't remember, I decided to leave the abdomen hollow and add those muscles later. Later I realized it would have been better to build up a great big pot-belly (more of a self-portrait in that case) and then whittle it down to a desirable shape. Learning as I go...I toyed with the idea of adding milliput to fill out the abdomen, but was so sick (and still with irritated skin) from the experience I decided instead to take some styrene dremel crumbs (which I had used to make the hair and beard) and mix it with some plastic cement to make a gooey ball which I could shape as desired... This too was a mistake... It took three days for that blob to dry and remained pitted along the edge. In some of these shots it looks like he's been disemboweled, but that is not the case.Torso with head. Hoping the proportions are right...The right pectoral muscle is raised and extended in anticipation of the right arm lifted and holding the torch. I also wanted a slant to the torso, his arm stretching his whole body up at an angle to give the impression that he was straining to hold the torch high. Still trying to achieve that effect...Posing is a big question mark. I decided to model the limbs in 'chunks' (thigh and then calf and then foot, etc.) so I could then make adjustments in the pose for the best results. This means a (likely) inevitable use of milliput again... but hopefully only in small workable amounts.

The right thigh effort...The first one was too small, and (what's worse) too thin. He would have had 'chicken legs'... Second attempt. This one is better but is too long. That can be fixed though...Comparison between the first thigh and the second. That's all for now. Wish me luck!!!

Callan You sir are a very talented modeller and you bring with you a refreshing breeze of La difference.

Wonderful! Wonderful!

I just want to know............who is taking the photos? I see both of your hands in the pics.

On sculpting with Milliput. I find the white type very sticky, so I use the standard yellow/grey type.

After mixing leave it to cure for 5 minutes or so. When sculpting use wet tools to stop stickyness. I use a square of foam plastic in a saucer or water, press any tools or fingertips on to the foam to dampen them.

EXCELLENT!!

simply excellent!



Puts me in mind of the Van Gils sculpture using 1/700 figs on a 1/35 base figure

have a loo here-- click on the images for high res versions

http://andersheintz.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... ction.html

JIM B

All I can say is - I am not worthy!

I'm looking forward to seeing you tackle the trireme. You posted a picture of the Olympias: I followed her (re)construction from the initial research by the designers way back in the day. They have been the first in around 2000 years to successfully build and operate an oared warship with 3 banks of oars. Always wanted to row crew on her.

If you haven't seen it, her home page (with heaps of pictures) is here: http://www.triremetrust.org.uk/