The Ship Model Forum

Thank you Sir Shoda!

In the spirit of the blind hog who finds a chestnut now and then, I found two things in printing DAP's (Dinky as parts) (1) not many supports are needed or desired (2) in the supports settings, the size of the support diameters can be greatly reduced.

I was able to successfully print Inclined ladders with rails and steps in 1:500. Now to cure, defoliate and install without smashing them. It might be good to paint them first to add a little rigidity? I even printed an in scale 1:500 vertical ladder. Some refinement is needed.

I added supports under the fwd midships 20 mm tubs, these constructed from sprue, an always handy material. Head scratching about anchor chain, but it may be that since I only need short straight runs I may be able to print as a solid item since one this small won't be flexible anyway. Working chain stoppers, probably not. Using spare hulls to experiment with lifeline techniques.

Cheers: Tom

Tom,

Your miniature looks great!!! You've made this a genuine "proof" model, for sure. Learning a lot about design/printing of extremely small parts and how to get them successfully on board - well done!

Perhaps when NARA decides to "show up and do the job we're paying them to do" you'll have documentation for further development and perhaps the larger version if that's your goal. You could (one you've got your BoGP in hand) decide to do the later cable reel version at the larger scale.

Either way, you're increasing your database of ship's plans and your knowledge at the same time.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

My experience has been that after one constructs an object that more information appears so this pre build is helping with that phenomenon. More information is on the way, maybe, I ordered the TFD disc with photos and drawings and NARA claims to have some response in a couple of weeks.

I think for working in these smaller scales a lot is possible, I was astounded that the inclined ladders printed in this scale but it apparent that more precise flush cutters and precision tweezers would be good items to have. My Dentist has great lighted magnifying glasses which looks like a useful item as well. He says that the light is as useful as the magnification.

The stack has some rather convoluted steam venting pipes. When making add on's I construct such items in DSM on the existing basic structure in the program, but do not attach it such that I can print it as a separate item. I've printed rafts of such "DAP's" created in this way.

Zo.... Can I indeed successfully remove and place the inclined ladders, fortunately there are only two.

Cheers: Tom

A few items successfully installed, inclined ladders came out well, added steam pipes fore and aft of the stack, modified the director platform, and will change it a bit more. Working on adding individual printed stanchions, very tedious! Currently printing another set of miscellaneous DAP's, scuttles, Anchor Windlass, going to change the rafts below the bridge to reflect the standoff racks which allow them to go overboard when cut loose.

I ordered the info disc from FDD on the Buckleys and it's quite good and I have been finding a plethora of DAP's to add. It of course recognizes that these ships were constantly modified! The handiest feature is that a lot of the items, which illustrated elsewhere, are dimensioned for a change.

Cheers: Tom

Perhaps the smallest inclined ladders I successfully printed were close to 1:700. I would like to emphasize how valuable making a trial ship is! A fun project in it's own right. Another item I forgot to include in the last DAPs print was the 3"50 practice mount which between the bridge and the stack. I have one from the DMS I can re scale. Some trial bridge rails are almost good enough, almost.

Tom

Hank,

Looking at the NARA web site it appears the National Archives has been open and ready for business for some time now.

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Phil:

Should find out in a couple of weeks about my NARA request. I am pleased that the records are apparently in existence. For a larger model, significant amounts of detail would be possible and required, especially in the open bridge area. I was lucky in that Whitehurst had a quad Bofors instead of the 1.1" as I already had a satisfactory 3D file for that mount. I did not look forward to attempting a re creation of the 1.1" mount.

Yesterday I did a file for the anchor windlass, but of course at 1:500 it's just a tiny object. Anchor chain, not sure what I can pull off at this scale. It's a fun learning experience working in a new scale, many mental puzzles.

Cheers: Tom

Today's progress on 1:500 Whitehurst. Added on to the director platform onto of the bridge, midships bulwarks, anchor windlass, new raft and rack, Stack steam pipes, deck scuttles, all DAP's.

Overall size of ship is it fits nicely in the palm of the hand with the fingers spread.

from the deck and above looks good but the hull needs some more putty work and sanding before it is painted. your camera work is too good to not hide that. it almost looks like a Lindberg DE model but wrong scale.

Tom,
Your Whitehurst is looking really good, I too agree with ddp that the hull could use some "finishing" work but I'm not one to critize work that I have absolutely no idea how to do, I really am impressed with your design process, and smart idea doing test runs to check your design work.
Overall I like what you have and I am impressed with the look of the ship.
Following with much interest.

_________________
Jim Varnell
ABH2USN

"BATTLE STATIONS"

1/700 Scale PEARL HARBOR Complete Base Diorama
Every Ship and Vessel present on 7 December 1941
1/350 USS ALASKA CB-1 (75% COMPLETE)
1/350 USS TEXAS BB-35 (10% COMPLETE)

I somehow suspect DDP is also known as David P and will be blocked.

As to the hull, yes, it's not finished. My design program is not even remotely intended for hull work. I'll work it over with very fine wet/dry paper and add all the good stuff, shafts, struts, rudder, props and bilge keels.

As a note, this is not my Whitehurst model, it's a trial horse to work out a lot of the three dimensional issues and equipment as installed on this vessel. This is a work in progress and to point out that it's not finished as this DDP did is simply stating the obvious. The idea here is to show the work as it puts along as I learn things, hopefully others may learn from my mistakes and successes.

Best regards: Tom

The DE's are somewhat interesting vessels, certainly designed with a lot of RN input. Destroyers were not ideal anti sub vessels as they were built for speed and not optimized for sub hunting. Speed against a WWII submarine was not a great requirement, just enough margin to overhaul a 18-21 knot sub on the surface. When actively hunting a relatively slow speed for effective sonar use was necessary. The major issue against the destroyers was a large turning radius, a Fletcher was in the 800 plus yard tactical radius, up there with Alaska or Missouri. Post war some Fletchers had an extension added to the rudder to improve things, the DE's had twin rudders and were shorter and much handier when hounding down a sub. Another issue with regards to sound contact, it would be lost when the escort approached the sub, allowing a chance for evasion between lost contact and depth charge pattern employment. The hedgehog turned out to be many times more effective than the depth charges and Whitehurst sank her sub on her fourth run. England sank all her six subs with hedgehogs. They were able to launch before sonar contact was usually lost, and being contact fuzed there was no depth setting. It was estimated that a single hit, breaching the subs pressure hull would usually be fatal. In some cases after an estimated hit (visual surface expression of detonation) some minutes elapsed when a large underwater explosion was experienced. It was not known the exact cause of the explosion, except it was quite large and no survivors were ever recovered.

In the Pacific as the Japanese surface threat faded away Torpedo tubes were removed and the AA suite increased due to the aerial resistance encountered.

NARA: Received a reply from NARA, records are too numerous to scan at this time but you can come visit us (I'm in Alaska) or hire a researcher. Harrrrumph! I know some of you have been to NARA, I'll guess hiring a researcher is quite expensive?

Todays progress on Whitehurst. Even though this model only spans the size of a medium extended hand, there is a lot of small stuff in this Actual scale 1:515 model. The biggest issue, tweezers launching small parts off into oblivion or pieces sticking to fingers to tweezers.

The K gun assemblies were pirated from the DMS project, the DE ones were slightly different with the inboard top of the rack making a 45 angle instead of a right angle. Lots of small changes to make.

Cheers: Tom

Nice hull, Tom.

Can't wait to see the print of the large model.

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Thank you Pascal!

I can't wait either though the hull will have to be re drawn. The AOS book "England" mislabeled the stern sections and the DE disc I got from FDD has the correct ones. The last 50 feet of the stern should taper a little more. I haven't decided on a scale as yet. I like the 120 scale a lot though the 144 worked fine for the DMS, it's a convenient sized model. After working on this small ship, it seems a huge scale!
Currently working on the 26' Motor Whale Boats, which for assembly reasons at this scale will be integral with the davits and bracing bar. We shall see if the firehoses and hydrants are anything but blobs at this size.

Regards: Tom

Tom,

Did NARA's comment "too numerous to scan" refer to the documents you wanted to order, or to all orders?

I suspect that after a couple of years off line they are swamped with orders now. The scanning is actually done by a non-profit friends group that gets the documents from NARA and scans them. Non-profits are usually understaffed (I am treasurer of one) and easily overwhelmed by sudden attention.

I noticed that the cost to scan a microfilm reel is $125 now. Ten years ago it was $35, and then went up to $65 a few years later. I lucked out and ordered a couple dozen of the Cleveland class reels before the price went up.

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Phil:

Supposedly there were 14 pages in the BOGP. Yes after being "on vacation" for a couple of years I can see where they might be both swamped and slow at ramping back up. A lot of the BOGP pages would not be so useful to me as to many of the internal arrangements etc.

Thanks for the input! Tom

Just looking at a batch of DAP's off the printer. In 1:514 one can print hydrants, and the spokes of the hand wheel are there, but it takes a microscope to see them.

Installing DAP's is difficult, the attrition from launching them from tweezers is significant.

Today added 4 sky lookouts to the tubs bean the bridge, nothing looks worse than an empty tub! Identifiable as sky lookouts, well OK, but if anybody has tried to make these at a scale smaller than 1:500 will recognize that these will not look great under electron microscope. Also added the two 26' MWB's hanging from their davits and a fire hose and hydrant on the aft side of the bridge O1 level superstructure.

Since NARA is currently "unable" to furnish the BOGP the Power reels and associated equipment remain somewhat vague. I could go with the pre Kamikaze makeover and install the midships torpedo tubes. In this configuration, she would likely be very similar to her sister ship from Bethlehem Steel, England.

T