The Ship Model Forum

I think we can finally put to bed that USS West Virginia was wearing anything other than MS-1 with 5-D/ 5-L as paint colors.

What we are seeing here is a VERY burned and battered 5-D paint job.

No, not even what some have claimed when they said "Modified Measure 2 - In the middle repainting from 5-D to 5-S. 5-D on her hull, 5-S on part of her upper works, 5-L on her fighting tops in accordance with Mod. MS-2. Photos show 5-H Haze Gray barrier coat on her turrets at the time of the attack, apparently her CO was not happy with 5-S straight over 5-D."

Maybe I'm missing the 5-H Haze Gray barrier coat on her turrets that her CO made the crew apply?

I never doubted that she was in 5-D, though the case for a partial, in-process repainting seems viable. Her funnels seem lighter than 5-D.

I thought you had pointed that out during one of your builds.

There is a lot of discoloration on the forward stack. Numerous crew members accounts comment that there was a massive fire on the boat deck between the two stacks. Here is just a couple of the comments:







If we take a closer look at that forward funnel, you can see the forward half is still 5-D but the after half is much lighter.



Although not as pronounced as the forward stack, the opposite effect can be seen on the aft stack with the forward half lighter than the after half.



Other images from behind the ship show how dark the back half of the aft funnel was and also show how light the aft part of the forward funnel was.

The fire's impact on the funnel seems reasonable.

So, in your opinion at this point, do you feel any aspect of WeeVee was undergoing a repaint, or was she pretty much just in 5-D/5-L?.

That's a tough question to answer. Do I believe she was in MS-1? Absolutely! She was most definitely NOT in Modified MS-2 with 5-H on her turrets that certain people want you to believe. Let's think about it for a minute. MS-1 through MS- 8 was discontinued in September. Why in the world would they paint a ship modified MS-2 months after that MS was discontinued. As far as the stacks are concerned, is the fire damage the darker part of the stack or the lighter? I'll let you be the judge of whether you are seeing fire damage or 5-S Sea Blue paint on the stacks.

Fair enough

For MANY years I have been searching for color footage of USS Arizona's #4 turret following the attack. It has been quite the endeavor!
The #4 turret was the largest/furthest aft structure still above the water that wasn't directly impacted by the flames. The flames reached as far back as the #3 turret.
Very quickly after the attack happened, workers started stripping the ship of usable things, including the aft two turrets. By February 1942, both turrets were well into the stripping process.
Both turrets were turned to starboard to allow easier access for the removal of the 14" guns. After the guns were removed from the turrets, the only thing left was the side panels of the turrets minus the range finders. The vents on the sides of the turrets just below the missing range finders were also still there.
In these two photos you can see the progression of the dismantling.
On turret #4, notice the turret vent just below the opening that used to house the range finder. In the photo on the right, notice also the hose coming out of the range finder opening. They were pumping out water from the bottom of the barbette. Finally, in the photo on the right, notice the plank extending across the top of the turret. That plank is propped up on each end by smaller wood blocks laying directly on top of the turret sides.

This is a still taken directly from the John Ford footage of the wreck. I obtained this footage from NARA. It is not altered in any way.
In this shot you can see the remains of turret #4 from the port side of the ship. You can see the starboard side of the turret with the hose extending out of the range finder opening, pumping water over the turret vent. You can also see that same propped up plank extending across the top of the turret.
I like also the detail that can be seen on the barge YC 308. Check out her red port side light. I had no idea barges had port and starboard sides.
But obviously, the MOST noticeable detail about this still is the color of turret #4. It is most definitely NOT 5-S.

Hi Jeff
Thank you for your continued research into the issue of Arizona's colors at Pearl Harbor.
It's pretty obvious to anyone who has followed the blue hoax that there never was any evidence that she was painted 5-S.
The photo's are clear enough to anyone who has looked at all of them to see.
Hoax
Thank you

Thanks John!
It's been a fun journey. Always looking for more.

I wouldn't call it a "hoax". I would call it very incomplete research that was up against a deadline and unfortunately a conclusion was made simply to accommodate that deadline. Then things just snowballed on the "researchers" and they decided to dig their heals in and defend their conclusion instead of being impartial and considering other research and evidence presented to "them".
Although that stance is never a good idea for a "researcher", I can understand them digging their heals in. It doesn't surprise me at all.
What does surprise me is all the people that had no involvement in this research at all, accepting and vehemently defending the "researchers" conclusions.

This is the best view of turret #3 that I've been able to locate. It shows the face plate and guns removed. The red paint you see is where the face plate connected to the side panels.


And this is the best view of the aircraft handling crane on her stern that I can find so far. The ship aft of Arizona in this pic is wearing MS-1 camo.

Jeff, that red paint on the faces of the side panels where the face plate would normally cover would be red lead paint to protect the bare metal from rust forming.

A reminder for all, let's stay focused on the presentation of evidence and engage in civil, respectful discussion. This is not the place for attacks.

The color of ships at Pearl Harbor is a discussion absolutely worth having and has value to modelers. But there is some unpleasant history associated with this topic some may not be aware of. For many reasons, this specific discussion tends to go very badly on this site and others.

This thread is an attempt to create here on MWS a safe place where evidence can be presented, interpretations of the evidence can be thoughtfully analyzed and respectfully discussed, and viewpoints be shared in a meaningful way, in its own place, free from personal attacks, put-downs, accusations and counter-accusations. Keep in mind, MWS needs to be a safe place for modelers to interact and learn.

To post here, meet these guidelines:

1. Presentation of documentary, photographic and video capture evidence is welcome and invited. If you know the photos or video captures are colorized, state so.
2. Posts inviting analysis, interpretation and thoughtful, respectful discussion of presented evidence are welcome and invited.
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