Calling all Cleveland-class (CL-55) fans

[David Sandifer]

I'll try my nearby Brookhurst Hobbies and The Railroad Crossing for plastic/brass rod/tube, and I'll resize part p202 for the frame.

[David Sandifer]

What are the dimensions of the aircraft hangar for a Cleveland class CL? Or (save me the 1/350 math conversion) what would be the dimensions of the aircraft hangar for a VF Cleveland? TIA

[Kraken Hobbies]

David,

Here is some info from a stalled project that I was working on for the VF kit. These dimensions are based on 1/350 BOGP's, not dimensions of the kit and are in inches. Have not acquired one yet to see how it would fit into the hull.

HTH

Matt

[David Sandifer]

Matt, thanks for the reference to the Miami CL89 Booklet of General Plans. I took your six dimensions and converted them into millimeters for the VF Cleveland:
1.4 = 34 mm
1.55 = 39 mm
.94 = 23 mm
1.01 = 25 mm
.67 = 16 mm
2.55 = 63 mm
with bulkhead height from 3rd deck to main deck = 16 mm
These measurements are rounded off, but close enough to construct a hangar bay below the hangar hatch.

[DrPR]

Keep in mind that the Miami was a second generation square bridge Cleveland class ship. There were a number of modifications from the original Clevelands, especially in the superstructure, forward and aft.

I think the hanger was enlarged from the original Clevelands somewhere along the line, but I don't recall when right now.

Phil

[NavyShooter]

I cannot recall for certain (I'll have to go look again) but the Battleship New Jersey channel did a video showing a WW2 USN Cruiser's hangar deck last year at some point.

I'm not sure which of the museum ships it was, but it would make an outstanding reference for you to show some of the structure, as I'm fairly sure that hasn't changed much. The details in terms of handling gear is certainly changed, but it might be of use to you.

NS

[DrPR]

The only Cleveland class ship remaining is the USS Little Rock CG-5 in Buffalo, New York. It was modified in the 1950s to be a guided missile cruiser and the hanger area was converted to berthing.

So any US cruiser museum ship with a hanger would be a heavy cruiser. I think the USS Salem CA-139 in Quincy, Massachusetts, is the last remaining US heavy cruiser.

Phil

[TZoli]

Does anybody know if there are photos of the two Fargo class cruisers USS Fargo and Huntington in the 1950's when they received their CIP (Class Improvement Plan) upgrade?

[TZoli]

I've checked (I usually check 3-4 sites for photos and navsource is one of them)
About Fargo I only have two long range aerials from 1953 at Bayonne Naval Depot (Refit should had took place in 1955)
And a few from 1961 when she was deactivated (Sensors removed, 3" guns had their cupolas)

As for Huntington a single 1955 aerial blurred photo when she was at Philadelphia Naval Shipyard (Barely identifiable) and one photo from 1961 when she was deactivated, aft view.

[TZoli]

Now I'm not sure the two Fargos got the CIP refit as part of the SCB-74C.
Most sites tells that she was put on reserve or decommissioned in 1950, some others state her twin Oerlikons got removed in 1955, while Friedamn states what was the armament and radar canges of the Cleveland and Fargo classes in the CIP but not clearly states if Fargo got it at all.

[Rick E Davis]

SCB-74 was the upgrade to the 3-in/50 RFG mounts replacing the 40-mm mounts. Only one Cleveland class got this mod, USS MANCHESTER (CL-83). Both of the FARGO sub-class were decommissioned in 1949-50, prior to the Korean War.

[David Sandifer]

What are the radar antennae on the two Mk34 FCDs of an Operation Torch NOV1942 USS Cleveland? (Might have missed it in the previous 23 pages)

[Dick J]

Cleveland's MK-34's carried MK-3 (FC) radar, the lower, wider version, until late 1943/early 1944, when she got MK-8 on the forward MK-34 only. (The MK-8 was possibly removed from Denver before she sailed for the West coast for repairs. Columbia also got a MK-8, forward only, at about the same time.)

[David Sandifer]

Thank you, Dick! I was lost between the LOWER, WIDER (your words) Mk3 and the HIGHER, TALLER (my words) Mk3. I've found two other CLs, Honolulu CL48 (24OCT1942) with the LOWER, WIDER shape and Helena CL51 (27JUN1942) with the HIGHER, TALLER shape, and both are identified simply as having Mk3 radar antenna. There must be another way to describe the differences besides the Mk1 eyeball.

[DanCinSD]

Hi all,
I have been researching to do a build of the Very Fire, 1/350, USS Cleveland kit as the USS Mobile CL-63.
After reading the 24 pages of info here, looking thru Navsource, and looking at USS Mobile's cruise book that a 1944ish build can be done with few modifications to the kit.
I know radars and masts need modifications.
I am also looking for a picture inside of the hanger looking forward. I have one showing the aft bulkhead and a view from inside USS Honolulu' hanger. It would be nice to add a representation of the hanger to the build.
I think I wouldn't need to add the 40mm twins in the stern tub as they seem very late war add to Mobile.

If I did a 1943 fit, it looks like she had
2 x quad 40mm on the fwd SS.
4 x twin 40mm. 2 on aft SS and 2 on main deck midships.
I would need to build the 20mm gallery midships on the O-1 lvl. 3 x 20mm in long tub and 1 20mm on end of fwd SS.
Plus 2 bow, 2 behind turret 2 3 on aft SS, 2 fwd of the #3 turret and 2 on her stern. 13 total 20mm mounts.
Am I close?
Thank you.

[Dick J]

There are a number of minor details that differentiate Cleveland from Mobile. But the biggest one to watch for is the supporting structure for the forward quad 40MM mounts. Cleveland commissioned without any quads (she had 6 twins) and reported to the Pacific that way. Her twins forward were high up in the superstructure. The next pair of ships, Columbia and Montpelier, replaced the high twins with quad 40MM, but these were on a box shaped structure which rested on the original single 20MM projecting structure. All subsequent sisters had a rounded structure that went from the main deck all the way up to the base of the mount. When Cleveland refitted with the quads late in the war, her forward quads were on a structure similar to the after quads on most of the class, with the rounded structure going only down to the O-1 level. To convert Cleveland to Mobile, that difference will have to be addressed.

That structure can be seen on Denver here: https://www.navsource.org/archives/04/058/0405820.jpg Note that Denver was the only ship of the class to have the after quad 40MM at the O-1 level. All others had them at the O-2 level, like the forward quads.

[Ian Roberts]

Thank you, Dick! I was lost between the LOWER, WIDER (your words) Mk3 and the HIGHER, TALLER (my words) Mk3. I've found two other CLs, Honolulu CL48 (24OCT1942) with the LOWER, WIDER shape and Helena CL51 (27JUN1942) with the HIGHER, TALLER shape, and both are identified simply as having Mk3 radar antenna. There must be another way to describe the differences besides the Mk1 eyeball.

Hey David -- Friedman's "Naval Radars" discusses the Mark 3 "FC" radar in some detail. The different antenna types were different mods of the system. The "higher-taller" type is described as the Mark 3 Mod.1 (BuOrd designation "FC"), and the "lower-wider" type is described as Mark 3 Mod.2 (same BuOrd designation FC). I assume these different antennas probably have antenna type designations that could be found with enough research. The differences in performance between the two are not discussed. Cheers

[DanCinSD]

Did the Cleveland class hangers have an elevator to move planes to the main deck?

[DanCinSD]

Did the Clevelands have 2, 5" practice loaders between turret 3 and the aft superstructure?

[DrPR]

The Cleveland CL-55 did have a 5" twin loading machine at frame 105 between the after superstructure and barbette #3 (BUSHIPS drawing No. 379141, Main Deck General Arrangement, CL55 microfilm Reel 1 Frame 5).

The USS Miami CL-89 also had the 5" twin practice loading machine at frame 105 between the aft superstructure and turret #3 (USS Miami Booklet of General Plans, Plan No. 7, Main Deck BUSHIPS No. CL89-S0103-600502).

So both the early round bridge and later square bridge ships had the 5" loader in about the same position.

****
The Cleveland blueprints have 41 drawings of the airplane elevator.

The Miami Booklet of General Plans also shows an elevator pit in the hanger space.

So it looks like all of the Cleveland class had an airplane elevator.

Phil