Calling all Iron Duke-class (1914-1946) fans

[El Santo]

Here is an interesting development... I happened to find a scan of a newspaper front page featuring the famous Jellicoe picture. Low and behold, planking seems to have appeared! Unless I am misinterpreting? Is it possible the other version of the photo lost that detail in the process of retouching? One seam seems to have survived. The 1939 photo still shows no planking here, but perhaps it was removed at some point.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-1914- ... 81509.html

I'm inclined to say that the Daily Sketch version is the one that's been retouched. In that one, the shadows cast by that pile of cylinders on the deck seem unnaturally sharp in comparison to the other version, while the edge of the handrail stanchion in the foreground seems unnaturally blurry. Also, the perspective of the seams in the planking feels off to me in a way that I can't easily describe, except to say that looking at it too closely for too long makes me faintly dizzy. Maybe the photo already had the quadruple blob of dark discoloration that you can see on the other version when the Daily Sketch got their hands on it, and somebody in the photography department went overboard with the airbrush while trying to fix it?

[JC_4130]

I'm inclined to say that the Daily Sketch version is the one that's been retouched. In that one, the shadows cast by that pile of cylinders on the deck seem unnaturally sharp in comparison to the other version, while the edge of the handrail stanchion in the foreground seems unnaturally blurry. Also, the perspective of the seams in the planking feels off to me in a way that I can't easily describe, except to say that looking at it too closely for too long makes me faintly dizzy. Maybe the photo already had the quadruple blob of dark discoloration that you can see on the other version when the Daily Sketch got their hands on it, and somebody in the photography department went overboard with the airbrush while trying to fix it?

I had wondered about that, there is something about the shading and perspective that looks off. It just seemed like a strange and excessive detail to go out of your way to 'photoshop' IF the no-plank picture was the original. This looks like a PR photo released by the Navy. I wonder if there was something in that spot that was edited out by the Navy with planking added first, and later someone decided that the fake planking looked crappy and edited it again.

Edited to add: the more I think about it, the more your explanation seems the simplest and most likely. I think I am over-thinking it.

[Dick J]

If you compare the original photo linked by Martin to the newspaper photo, more than just the planking has been retouched. In the original, there is, by Jellicoe's right hip, another sailor partially visible behind him, who is totally gone in the newspaper image. Also, some nearby deck fittings have been removed. In the newspaper image, the added planking show vertical bands of lighter and darker areas that carry across plank lines. As was previously mentioned, the area where the planking touches the cylinders is more blurry than the adjacent planking and cylinders. The amount of retouching is so extensive that I wouldn't trust that copy for any level of detail interpretation.

[JC_4130]

I am a little embarassed I didn't notice that earlier. I was clearly naiive to the extent of photo enhancement that was being done in the early 20th century.

Going back to errors in RA Burt's drawings, I found another one in the 1914 profile of Iron Duke - it has the last 6" gun mount in both the original(main deck aft) position and post 1915 (forward, a deck above the rest of the battery positions) Not sure how the drawing was made but it looks like a digital error. There is an anchor overlapping the incorrect position.

In addition, I noticed the 1918-1919 profile of HMS Lion mysteriously lost one 4" gun placement (foremost position in the aft group) despite it being present in a photo directly above from the same period. Seems like another mistake?

[81542]

JC_4130,

Further to the matter concerning the actually appearance of the boom boat stowage area of HMS IRON DUKE: I suggest that you try contacting the Imperial War Museum, which might have a contemporary model of the ship (possibly one made by Norman Ough) and can give you the information that you require.

Concerning RA Burt's "British Battleships of World War One:" I heard a rumour recently but can't remember the source, that it is under revision for publication in a new edition. I have the foregoing book and his later book on the period 1919 - 1939 (?). My thoughts are that both are useful but that the drawings in them lack attention to detail and show signs of some of the details in them being "skimped" when executed. Nevertheless, the author deserves our respect for having researched and written them.

Hope this helps.

[81542]

JC_4130,

Further to my last: the IWM does indeed hold a model of HMS IRON DUKE in its collection made by Norman Ough circa 1928. The Catalogue Number is MOD 127. There are two photographs of the model in "The Life and Ship Models of Norman Ough." Unfortunately neither are clear enough or show the part of the Shelter Deck that you are interested in so a request for a better picture would be appropriate.

You may already be aware but the work of Norman Ough was generally very accurate for its day though it is nowadays "holes" can be picked in his models by people who saw service in the Royal Navy. Never mind, they are still very fine models.

[JC_4130]

81452, Thank you for this information. There are photos of this ship on IWM's website and while they aren't amazing, a glimpse of the boat deck seems to show gray that is different from the wood and Corticene areas

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30018145

[Bassinger]

New to forum not sure I am posting in the right place.
Just started Iron Duke "Airfix" using Atlantic Models Detailing Kit. Have used Ajax as a test piece.
My Grandfather was on Iron Duke at Jutland as a Royal Marine Bandsman so want to produce a family heirloom including his Teak Barrel from the deck.
What battle flags would she be flying at the point of contact?

[81542]

A difficult, if not impossible question to answer but someone might have something more definite. However, I would make a guess at: the CinC's flag
(that of a full admiral) and one, possibly more battle ensigns.

From what I have read in various books, any orders that the CinC was giving by the time IRON DUKE opened fire were probably being given by wireless. As an alternative, you might like to model the ship flying the "deployment" signal; which was Equal Speed Pendant, Flag Charlie, Flag London on the starboard outboard signal halyard but that had been "executed" long before she opened fire.

Best of Luck with this one!