Calling all Royal Navy E-class fans

[ar]

Please read the posts again carefully.
No definative evidence that a 40mm was fitted. I doubt that it was.

[Laurence Batchelor]

Mike her 3" HA gun was fitted in place of aft torpedo tubes as per most A to I's.
40mm is mentioned fitted in Cian's (Gunnery Ofiicer's) book on Electra from late 41 and into 42.
No photographic evidence has been forthcoming to confirm this questionable evidence.
If it was fitted, AR believe's it would have most likely been fitted onto the searchlight platform.

[ar]

Please read the posts again carefully.
No definative evidence that a 40mm was fitted. I doubt that it was.

The measurements of the platform for the three inch gun is, 20' x 14'

[Graham Boak]

in the photos presented (for which many thanks) I'm unable to make out where the AA guns are placed on Exmouth. Are the quadruples in the bridge wings? And where on the ship would the individual Lewis guns be placed?

[ar]

in the photos presented (for which many thanks) I'm unable to make out where the AA guns are placed on Exmouth. Are the quadruples in the bridge wings? And where on the ship would the individual Lewis guns be placed?

No quad 0.5" fitted on the leader.

[Graham Boak]

That's what it seemed to me from the photos, but the references are definite they were there, and there's something in the bridge wings. I'm not convinced it is the quad .50 though.

I've been peering at the available drawings, and it seems as though almost all the extra length of a leader is aft of the torpedo tubes. There may be a small bow extension, and there does seem to be a few extra scuttles in the forecastle.

[Mike W]

I have thought of another question on modelling HMS Electra December 1941. From what I've read she appeared to have extended bridge wings. I'm guessing the Tamiya model represents the normal bridge wings. Can anyone confirm whether I'm right or wrong on this? If I do need to model the extended bridge wings - has anyone got plans and or dimensions and shape of these?
cheers Mike

[dick]

Yes, the Tamiya model bridge wings are the original pre-war type. You need to extend them to show Electra in 1941.

There seem to have been at least two patterns to the bridge wing extensions on the E Class in 1941. One type sees just the front third or so of the bridge wings extended outwards and forward and supported essentially by one quite prominent vertical pole, presumably centrally under the Oerlikon base. You can see examples of this in the wartime pictures of Express, Echo and Eclipse on early pages of this thread.

Electra seems to have had a different type, a more rectangular extension along most of length of the original narrow bridge wings and supported by a frame of narrow supports. You can see a good forward view of this in the late 1941 picture of Electra on page 2 of this thread. This style of extension seems to have been more common on the F class and you can get a good side-on view of it on Foxhound at:

http://www.navyphotos.co.uk/foxhound%20dww21b.jpg .

Does anyone know which type of bridge wing extensions Encounter had?

[Terry Pottle]

I am starting with an E-class as Minelayer, without A, Y & TT mounts as an interesting alternative, and have 3 questions about them
1) when did they receive the 3ins AA, and how was it fitted, was the raised mount squared due to the mine rails?
2) the mines how big where they, photos of Express show them being nearly as high as the aft structure. Campbells "Naval Weapons" has no dimensions.
3) when was the tripod mainmast removed.

have done a general internet search without much luck, and English "Amazon to Ivanhoe" is not so detailed.

TIA
Terry

[RNfanDan]

I compiled a fairly useful research collection on just these topics, for my minelaying destroyer project (HMS Impulsive).

Among the best online resources I found on the mines, themselves are located HERE.

Scroll down through the data and information until you reach the link to the Vickers Photographic Archive website--great stuff!

If you'll e-mail me, I may have some other tidbits you may find useful to your own E-class build.

[Mike W]

Thanks for that pic. My question is now - do the bridge wings extend the full width of the ship? Looks like it to me in that pic.
cheers Mike

[dick]

Did I read somewhere (from ar?) that Home Fleet minelaying destroyers in late 1941 and early 1942 were painted overall 507b?

[ar]

Thanks for that pic. My question is now - do the bridge wings extend the full width of the ship? Looks like it to me in that pic.
cheers Mike

No destroyer minelayers in that period.

[dick]

No destroyer minelayers in that period.[/quote]

Ah, I was really referring to HMS Express. I was in the IWM photo archive this week and came across a picture of Express after her bow rebuild showing her in an overall medium grey colour. I wondered what colour that might be. The photo (E11686, but actually in the grey FL files) was dated 1941.

This set me thinking again about another photo of Express I have come across showing her being refuelled by the Prince of Wales. It is clearly taken during the Force Z deployment as figures on the decks of POW are in tropical whites. The view is forward along Express's iron deck, and the carley raft in the foreground, the rear sides of the of the quad 0.5 inch AA platform, the rear of the bridge, the bridge wings and the whaler under the bridge wings are all visible and are that same medium grey contrasting with the white boiler suits of the crewmen on deck. Had the ship been in the WA scheme at that time then these areas would have been much lighter. ( An extremely poor quality version of this photo can be seen on the Force Z website.)

Contrary to my earlier thinking, I now therefore begin to suspect that Express was painted an overall grey during her time with Force Z. I looked again at SS Toone's service history (crossing the line certificate) and it would seem that he joined Express in January 1943.

[ar]

Medium grey overall at time of damage in August 1940.

May have been oveall medium grey upon completion of repair, re the photo that you mention.
NO minelaying equiptment at this time. Removed during repair.

Painted in Western Approaches camouflage by August/september 1941. Photos confirm.

PLEASE drop the use of the word "iron deck", people might start to think.

No destroyer minelayers in that period.

Ah, I was really referring to HMS Express. I was in the IWM photo archive this week and came across a picture of Express after her bow rebuild showing her in an overall medium grey colour. I wondered what colour that might be. The photo (E11686, but actually in the grey FL files) was dated 1941.

This set me thinking again about another photo of Express I have come across showing her being refuelled by the Prince of Wales. It is clearly taken during the Force Z deployment as figures on the decks of POW are in tropical whites. The view is forward along Express's iron deck, and the carley raft in the foreground, the rear sides of the of the quad 0.5 inch AA platform, the rear of the bridge, the bridge wings and the whaler under the bridge wings are all visible and are that same medium grey contrasting with the white boiler suits of the crewmen on deck. Had the ship been in the WA scheme at that time then these areas would have been much lighter. ( An extremely poor quality version of this photo can be seen on the Force Z website.)

Contrary to my earlier thinking, I now therefore begin to suspect that Express was painted an overall grey during her time with Force Z. I looked again at SS Toone's service history (crossing the line certificate) and it would seem that he joined Express at the completion of her Simonstown refit in 1942 and commented that the ship had a fresh "tropical" paint job. He may perhaps have been referring to the WA white/green/blue scheme we know from other photos that she was painted in by some point in 1942.[/quote]

[dick]

"Painted in Western Approaches camouflage by August/September 1941. Photos confirm."

That would be surprising. Which pictures confirm this?

[ar]

"Painted in Western Approaches camouflage by August/September 1941. Photos confirm."

That would be surprising. Which pictures confirm this?

Photos given to me by MOD when they were having a clear out in the late 1960s
See photo dated 1941, (photo is correctly dated), on the Australian War Memorial Photographic Database.
Photo number 302386

[dick]

Slightly puzzled:

- Australian site says only "c1941" which is not very definite.

- And moreover on page 2 of this thread, referring to the same picture, you say:

"The photo of Express in camouflage is probably (but not certain) taken after return to home waters in 1942."

[ar]

My fault. I meant to have written that the camouflage and radar fit is correct for 1941, which it is.
After refit in mid 1942 in which the AA and radar was changed, the camouflage remained as before.

[phil gollin]

Just a few letters out :-

Wreck of HMS Hunter found in Narvik Fjord, 300m down, designated as war grave.

There was a short item on the BBC Radio 4 news, but all I could find on the web was :-

media.netpr.pl/notatka...89C2584429

HMS Hunter found
PRNewswire-GNN London 5 March

London, 5 March /PRNewswire-GNN/ --

MINISTRY OF DEFENCE News Release (034/2008) issued by The Government News
Network on 5 March 2008
With over 100 souls still on board HMS HUNTER was lost on the 10th April
1940 and has remained unlocated and undisturbed 305m under the icy waters of
a Norwegian fjord until the Norwegian Minehunter HNOMS TYR found her this week.

HNOMS TYR was participating in a large multinational exercise involving
the Royal Navy, Royal Norwegian Navy and the Royal Netherlands Navy along
with ships from Spain, Belgium and Germany when she discovered the sunken
vessel with her echosounder. On dispatching her remote operated submersible
to investigate, it became clear that this was the long lost HMS HUNTER,
lying as she was when she had finally succumbed to the unforgiving waters
after bravely fighting during the Battle of Narvik; an action that would
result in the first VC of WW2 being awarded.

The presence of the Commander of the United Kingdom's Amphibious Force,
Major General G S Robison, and other Royal Navy ships participating in the
exercise allows appropriate marks of respect to be paid in a ceremony due to
take place later this week. The ships of the RN, the Netherlands Maritime
Force and the Norwegian Navy, who are participating in Exercise Armatura
Borealis, will lay wreaths over her grave in a commemorative service complete
with the ships sailing past the site of the sunken destroyer in formed line.

Major General Garry Robison said: "Finding HMS HUNTER was a poignant moment
and being able to pay our respects along with our Norwegian and Dutch allies
is particularly fitting to those who lost their lives."

The Norwegian National Joint Headquarters was pleased to inform the British
Authorities that they had finally found HMS HUNTER, which will now be marked
as a wargrave, after several attempts over the years had proved unsuccessful.

The Senior Spokesperson, Col John Ogland, said: "Being able to host this large
multination exercise is great for us but to find HMS HUNTER whilst doing
so makes it very special indeed. We remain close allies and are eternally
grateful to those who helped preserve our freedom."

The ceremony will be held this Saturday, 8th March 08.

Notes to Editors
Background
HMS Hunter was an H-Class Destroyer of 1880 Tonnes, armed with 4.7inch guns
and 2 x 4 Torpedo Tubes. She had a crew of approximately 145 at the time
of sinking.
She was sunk at approx 0530 GMT with 110 killed on board. The Germans lost
4 destroyers during the 1st Battle of Narvik whilst the Allies lost only
HMS HUNTER and HMS HARDY

Requests for attendance at the Wreath Laying ceremony should be directed to
RN Fleet Media on +442392628825.


Photographs of the wreck of HMS Hunter and of Exercise Armatura Borealis 08
are available at http://www.royalnavyimages.co.uk.


Ministry of Defence