Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[ModelMonkey]

i was wondering if anyone would have better images of [the forecastle]. the diagram in the book is good but doesn't have any detail. like stairwells, walk ways, other equipment that was in this area, and such.

There are some drawings in the AOTS book of the forecastle that show various inclined ladders and platforms of this area. IIRC, look at the A6 drawings of the forecastle (don't have it in front of me at the moment). For what it's worth, those platforms and ladders would be difficult to see on a finished model in 1/700 or 1/350 (see first photo below).

There is one notable, common kit accuracy error near the forecastle. It is the structure forward of the forward elevator on the real ship just below the flight deck. On your kit, look at the structure at the front of the hangar deck that is tapered towards the bow and rounded at the corners. Kit manufacturers inaccurately portray that tapered, rounded structure all the way up to the flight deck. On the real ships the tapered structure is only one deck high. There was another structure, essentially a big rectangular box, that sat on top of the tapered structure. IIRC, this area of the ship was used for crew berthing. The rectangular box extends all the way up to the flight deck but that's not how the kit manufacturers have replicated it. I don't know of any kit that has that area shaped properly and it's very conspicuous on the real ship. Capt652 got it right on his model.

[raser13]

o.k. thanks.steve i probly would never have seen that issue with the forcastle area being partly rectangler. i'm still going to add the slated ladder that is on the wall with the deck gear locker behind the wildcats. noobody else would notice ,but it would bother me every time i look at the model.

i do have one question pertaining to the "light labyrinths?" on either side of the gear locker door. in the diagrams it shows that there are openings on the sides of them in the direction of the outer side of the ship.

http://www.myrtsweb.com/upload/raser13/ ... pg43a7.jpg

how tall are those openings? do theygo from the floor to the top of the labyrinth or do they stop at a distance up? 3/4 or what? or did they have a second water tight door that is not shown on the diagram?and the labyrinth do they have a top or are they just a large metal L shape around the door to block light? here's the piece in question:

http://www.myrtsweb.com/upload/raser13/ ... eldoor.jpg
http://www.myrtsweb.com/upload/raser13/ ... epiece.jpg

[Tracy White]

I've been keeping an eye out but haven't seen anything yet. No guns or planes in the area so you don't see many photos as it was probably considered "boring."

[AndrexP]

how tall are those openings? do theygo from the floor to the top of the labyrinth or do they stop at a distance up? 3/4 or what? or did they have a second water tight door that is not shown on the diagram?and the labyrinth do they have a top or are they just a large metal L shape around the door to block light? ...

We still use these in USN ships, at least the older ones. In my recollection, the light traps were built up of light sheet metal with a black Herculite (think rubberized canvas) curtain as the intermediate piece. The curtain easily was removable, too, for working parties, etc.

On the CV-9 class fo'c'sle, these would not be weight bearing structures, so they were probably just as lightly built -- sheet metal on the outside, with a black canvas curtain inside. They were probably just as tall as the overhead - about 8 feet.

Incidentally, some spaces where you couldn't have (or didn't want) a light trap, like storage lockers, etc., were rigged with an interlock switch on the door that would cut the inside lights as soon as the door was off the jamb.

Part of the underway daily routine aboard ship was "Darken Ship", where the division Duty Damage Control Petty Officers would report to DC Central that condition 'Yoke' and 'Darken Ship' were set in their spaces -- meaning that all 'X' and 'Y' closures were secured and that all darken ship curtains and switches were operational and in their proper position.

[Tracy White]

Just as a reminder, I've posted some Navy documentation on the hangar deck light labyrinths.

[Tracy White]

2) I've got a distant shot of Antietam's hangar bay that shows this area... don't remember roller doors but there were tons of props hanging frm this bulkhead.

I just looked at the photo and the reason I didn't remember any roller doors is that there's a corsair parked in the way... can't make out any details at the main deck level.

[ModelMonkey]

...to be continued next week with the forward elevator well.

Forward elevator well

Wartime photographs of the forward elevator well on any of the Essex class ships are rare indeed, especially those showing the forward bulkhead. Although wartime photos of this area of USS Yorktown continue to be elusive, Tracy White was kind enough to send wartime photos of this area on USS Intrepid CV-11 and USS Lexington CV-16. The details visible on the wartime photos of the two ships, including details of the forward bulkhead, are identical. Therefore, I replicated these details on USS Yorktown consistent with the photos of her two sisters.

Unlike the white hangar deck interior bulkheads, the black and white wartime photographs show that the forward elevator well bulkheads were painted a very, very dark color, possibly Navy Blue 5-N or Deck Blue 20-B. After discussing the most likely color for these bulkheads with Tracy, I will be painting the bulkheads shown here Deck Blue 20-B. Two reasons: 20-B was more commonly used than 5-N generally, and the bulkheads were only visible from the exterior of the ship when viewed from the air when looking down into the well.

Additionally, each ship had the warning "BEWARE OF PROPELLERS" conspicuously painted on the forward bulkhead, although done somewhat differently for each ship. Intrepid's warning appears to be 36" tall white letters (with the word "OF" in smaller 18" letters) painted in all caps across nearly the entire width of the bulkhead. Lexington's warning appears much smaller, painted in two rows of about 12" letters in all caps, possibly in red, on a white rectangular background, located on the left (port) side of the vertical elevator track. Like her sisters, Yorktown probably had a warning painted here too. If so, it probably was similar or identical to the warning on the funnel uptake trunk as seen in the film "The Fighting Lady": red letters on a white rectangular background.

[Tracy White]

To expand a little bit on what Steve posted, a lot of thought and effort went into camouflage on carriers, given their importance. Consider that the lower wings on aircraft were painted medium blue on the parts that folded and were visible from the air when aboard ship. (Corsairs and Helldivers mainly) Look at the below picture of Lexington in 1941 and see how "brilliant" the elevator wells are in comparison to the rest of the ship:



Reposting CV-16's aft elevator well picture as a demo:



Note that the underside of the elevator and the pit itself are in white, but that the bulkheads behind the F6F drop tanks are dark. I have kept my eyes open for documentation on the color to be used, but have found nothing so far. My personal, WAG is 20-B deck blue over 5-N because every ship would have stock of deck blue, but not all ships would necessarily have 5-N (CV-9, for instance, was 5-L and black).

This is just a wild guess at this point, no documentation to back it up.

[Capt652]

I haven't posted in a while, but been reading every day, very good information every time!

Steve how did you letter the hanger deck bulkhead with the 'beware of propellers' text?

On a completely different subject;

I received a suggestion to look at this site, Australian War Memorial, with this link, http://cas.awm.gov.au/TST2/cst.acct_mas ... &bos=Win32
Australian War Memorial Collections Database. I typed 'navy' for the search word and chose Second World War for the conflict. On the next page click on 'photograph' in the left column.

Over 5,000 photographs, many of US and Royal navy ships (some Japanese too)taken from the vantage point of Australian navy ships coming along-side the allied ships. I found four of Shangri-la so far and I haven't finished looking yet.

Capt652

[Essex]

Consider that the lower wings on aircraft were painted medium blue on the parts that folded and were visible from the air when aboard ship. (Corsairs and Helldivers mainly)

This was important only for the aircrafts, where the wings folded upwards, like Corsair and Helldiver. The Hellcat's, Wildcat's and Avenger's wings folded backwards, and the dark blue upper surface looks outwards, the white underside can not be seen from the air.

See the color drawing on this website: the underside of the Helldiver is white, but on the foldable part of the wing is dark blue.

http://www.acepilots.com/planes/helldiver.html

[Essex]

Your questions indicate that you have studied the AOTS drawings very well!

Yes, I enjoy studiing this drawings and photos...

See AOTS drawing E7...

I have scanned in the weekend the mentioned parts of this drawing, but so isn't necessary to post it.

Since the photo of my model in your post above was taken, I have since installed many, many more details in the hangar bay and the platform (A7/1 #9) on my model.

Can you post photos of the final(?) version of your Yorktown's hangar?

I'm "building" Trumpy's 1/350 Yorktown too. I have the model since two years, and spend about 2-3 months with studiing the plans and photos, and compare the details with the kit parts. I have one of the GMM PE sets too, the other one is a future project. I plan it to build as a waterline model in a harbor diorama (early 1945 somewhere in the Pacific).

Remark: "building" = I have already tried to fit the larger parts, and cut out most of the roller doors. Then was a year and a half break in the project: I have not much time and I have other hobbies as well. Now I've began to continue the work...

[Essex]

Forward elevator well

Wartime photographs of the forward elevator well on any of the Essex class ships are rare indeed, especially those showing the forward bulkhead. Although wartime photos of this area of USS Yorktown continue to be elusive, Tracy White was kind enough to send wartime photos of this area on USS Intrepid CV-11 and USS Lexington CV-16. The details visible on the wartime photos of the two ships, including details of the forward bulkhead, are identical. Therefore, I replicated these details on USS Yorktown consistent with the photos of her two sisters.

I see, you modified the forward elevator well since december 2007.

This part of the ship is a challenge... (The biggest challenge is the island and the radar outfit.) In the AOTS drawing A8/2 can be seen three elevator tracks, marked with red circle on the attached picture. The tracks are both sides at the rear of the elevator and at the front in the middle. (Not offset to port.) There is two elevator lifting piston in the elevator pit, marked with green rectangle on the mentioned picture and see the drawing E7 part #16.

The Trumpy kit has the elevator tracks only both sides in the middle, as on the photo of the mothballed ship, posted earlier by Steve. But there is no lifting piston on this photo, it must be a modified elevator for the heavier aircrafts. I don't know when this modification made? Was it during the WW2 or post-war?

There is a color photo in the book "Carrier Air War in original WWII color" by Robert Lawson and Barrett Tillman on the page 60. This shows the elevator well of the Yorktown in 1943 loading Hellcats and aircraft towing tractors for her shakedown cruise. (I think this photo was taken on the same day as the photo in the Warship's Data 5, page 28.) On this photo clearly can be seen the elevator track at the rear as on the AOTS drawing, and not at the middle! Maybe the front track is there, too, but I'am not sure... Interesting is the triangular platform in the edge of the well. I scanned a part of this larger photo, see the attachment. Note the color of the elevator well!

It's ok, but there is an other photo of the Lexington after her 1945 refit, see in my next post! On this photo the elevator track about in the middle of the well! Is it Lexington's original outfit or a wartime modifcation?

[Essex]

There is a new question:

The Yorktown originally has two deck cutouts for the 40 mm guns. This cutouts were filled during her Oktober 1944 refit. There is a deck sheave for the arrester cable at the aft cutout. Was this sheave moved outwards or it remains in the original position?


And a question to Steve:

How did you fill this cutouts in your modell?

[ModelMonkey]

The Yorktown originally has two deck cutouts for the 40 mm guns. This cutouts were filled during her Oktober 1944 refit. There is a deck sheave for the arrester cable at the aft cutout. Was this sheave moved outwards or it remains in the original position?

Photos in "Warship's Data 5: USS Yortown (CV-10)" by Robert F. Sumrall indicate that the arrestor sheave remained in its original position.

How did you fill this cutouts in your modell?

I used two pieces of .040 thick styrene to fill the cutouts and scribed new planks to match the surface planking pattern of the kit parts. I then puttied and sanded the undersides to match the existing flight deck parts. Lastly, I capped the edge with a strip of styrene to replicate the steel flight deck edge.

The associated two 40mm Bofors positions were lowered even with the 5-inch sponsons consistent with photos.

[raser13]

i know that there isn't probably any good shots of the groud tackle area of the ship. as tracy pointed out it was a boring part of the ship.but what about the quad 40 tub just to the bow of the ground tackle deck? all the ones i've been able to find either show this area from a smaller boat looking up at the bottom thus hiding all of the deck level features,of it or are from planes above where the gun tub is in shadow from the flight deck. the AOTS is quite usless in reguards to this area.

[ModelMonkey]

i know that there isn't probably any good shots of the groud tackle area of the ship...the AOTS is quite usless in reguards to this area.

Check AOTS drawings A7 and A8. I think one of them shows a plan view of this area clearly enough to model it well. You'll see two light labyrinths, placement of the paravanes, platforms and inclined ladders. You'll want to compare two levels (forecastle and gallery deck level) in the drawings to understand the platforms well and how the inclined ladders reach between them and the deck.

[ModelMonkey]

One thing to note about wartime Essex class carriers' midships hangar deck is that the Essex ships do not have steel doors that rolled across the hangar deck to contain fires as they did postwar like modern aircraft carriers do. Wartime Essex class ships had flexible fire curtains that were lowered from above and drawn, not rolled, across the deck. There were two, one forward of the conflagration station and the second adjacent to the aft elevator. Both were stowed (almost furled like a sail) on the girder above and on the starboard side of the ship when open. It is not clear if they were closed mechanically or manually. They appear very dark in color, possibly brown or black, as shown in "The Fighting Lady" film which was in made in color. The reason I bring this to your attention is that the aft curtain is visible from the flight deck if the aft elevator is lowered.

[Tracy White]

Those curtains were also used at night time to section off the hangar deck if they needed to open doors for whatever reason; they could open the forward roller doors and keep the lights behind the curtains on and continue to work.

[Essex]

The reason I bring this to your attention is that the aft curtain is visible from the flight deck if the aft elevator is lowered.

...and the forward fire curtain is just behind the movie picture projection room mentioned earlier, it's maybe visible, too.

Photos in "Warship's Data 5: USS Yortown (CV-10)" by Robert F. Sumrall indicate that the arrestor sheave remained in its original position.

Do you think about the two photos on the left side, page 29? These are the only photos of the flight deck after the October 1944 refit, but are too small for me to decide how this detail looks like.

I think Lex may have had the aft 20mm galleries as well for a very short time, but certainly not during her time in the Pacific.

Photos in the books about Lexington ("On deck..." and "Detail and Scale") shows that she has the aft 20 mm galleries yet in May, 1943. In February 1944 these galleries are not there, but I don't know the date of the removal.

[Essex]

Steve, I have two questions now...

1) If I see well, you have scratchbuilt the deck edge elevator tracks. Is it means, that the kit parts are entirely wrong? Isn't enough to remove the "base plate"?

2) The photo on the page 49 in Warships Data 5 shows the modified signal bridge. I haven't found yet any other source of this modification. You have rebuild this part on your model. Do you have some better info (photo, drawing) about this? And what about the enlarged bridge and the improved funnel cap? The photos I have are too small to identify this details.

Remark: I think the date of the photo on the page 60 isn't March 1945, it must be taken before the 1944 refit because of the earlier "standard" signal bridge.