The Ship Model Forum

Thanks Keith.
May I ask where have you found that little (but important) piece of information ???

The primer question is also one that I´ve asked myself many times...

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I have it as March 1st in my notes per "Fighting Lady: New Yorktown in the Pacific War" (P. 243 for those that have it) by Clark G. Reynolds. I don't have my copy with me so I can't quote the exact passage at this time.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

That piece of info must have slipped by unnoticed when I read the book. I´m going to check that out, too...

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OK, I have my copy available and did some more digging. I was incorrect, it was actually page 242; left column of text near the bottom:



This was on March 6th as VF-3 was leaving. While it doesn't mention what she was painted in, I came across documents for late 1944 and early 1945 that discussed discontinuing dazzle schemes due to the kamikaze threat. This document posted mid January shows that the Navy had plans to paint Yorktown in Ms 21 at least that early. "An" order went out at the end of February (here) but I don't know if it is "the" order and also doubt that it would have transmitted out to Yorktown from Washington DC that fast.

Regardless, the photo of her on page 253, "Bomb Sunday" the 18th of March looks like Measure 21 to me. I could be mistaken, of course.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Or you are absolutelly right...if the caption is correct !!! I had already read through that part, and I also know for sure that they DID get a fresh paint job at that time, because I had read that in another source (I can´t remember the name of the book- a personnal onboard account from a lieutenant). But that source also failed to tell exactly what Measure she was painted with.
I´m still not near my "Fighting Lady" copy, but I´m going to check that out, as well as my other source, as soon as I leave duty. Thanks.

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I took a look at the photo in page 253 of "The Fighting Lady" and I must say that I´m not completelly convinced that it is a proof that Yorktown was already painted MS21 at that time (March 45). I can see why you think that way, because the starboard 40mm sponsoons are all the same shade, as well as the 5´gun mounts and the island. But if you take a look at the previous scheme (MS32/10A ) you´ll notice that all the area covered by this picture was painted with the same colour (5-L Light Gray). The only exception was the 40mm sponsoon closer to the camera, which in the MS32/10A paint diagram, was supposed to be "split" between two colours (5-O Ocean Gray and 5-L Light Gray). And there lies the doubt...in this photo, that sponsoon is only painted in one colour. Now, is that a proof that she was already in MS21 or that the paint job done on the MS32/10A was not 100% correct ???

Also, the book I mentioned earlier is named "Aircraft Carrier" and was written by J.Bryan, III. Its a kind of diary that he kept while he was onboard Yorktown (30Jan45 - 30Apr45), and on page 63 he wrote:



So, no doubt that Yorktown did get a paint job while at Ulithi. MS32 "overhaul" or a brand new MS21 ??? The author doesn´t mention...

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PS - Would Mr. Keith be kind enough to let us know, why does he thinks that Yorktown got her MS21 scheme only in July ?

Hi all!

Could anyone tell me what color the lattice antenna towers and screens would be with a MS 21 scheme?

Thanks

Capt652

_________________
Timm Smith
Learn something new about the ship or your job every day. Ignorance is not bliss aboard a warship in wartime. Ignorance could cost the life of yourself, a shipmate, or the loss of the ship.
- Personal Information Booklet CV- 38

Same color as the rest of the vertical surfaces.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracy, I painted them today...

Capt652

_________________
Timm Smith
Learn something new about the ship or your job every day. Ignorance is not bliss aboard a warship in wartime. Ignorance could cost the life of yourself, a shipmate, or the loss of the ship.
- Personal Information Booklet CV- 38

Jose, the primer info was listed in Floating Drydock's Camouflage II and the paint change date info was in Warship's Data 5. Glad to help.

Jose, the info on Yorktown's Ms. 21 paint was obtained from the Warships data 5 booklet (page 30). It was the only reference I came across that listed a place and time frame for the repainting. However, with no disrespect to that publication, I also noted several incorrect captions and illustrations including the actual 3310a pattern shown as 3a. The only other indirect reference I have was a conversation with a Yorktown Vet (a Marine 20MM gunner's mate) was that he thought they repainted in the Philippines. He was not sure unfortunately. I don't know if the Marine component was required to paint the ship but , I thought if they were one would surely remember it. I believe however that if you are modeling Yorktown after her repairs (from the March 18 damage) It would be safe to show her in Ms.21 after June 22 45' at least.

Jose, (postscript) Also, there is a picture in that aforementioned publication (on page 49) that 'supposedly' shows Yorktown on March 18 in a definate Ms. 33 10a. This same booklet also lists Airgroup 9's sevice date as from March 18 to June 9. I only hope this does not confuse you further. . . and that you now understand the difficulty of researching Essex class ships during WWII. Nevertheless, have fun modeling!

Thanks for the input Keith.
I always like to have as many info as possible on a single subject. Even if I´ll have to do some "filtering" after that...

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Boy, I really feel stupid, but I have googled and searched this forum for ATOS. Is this a book? What doed ATOS stand for. Is it available?

EJ

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Its actually AOTS, short for "Anatomy of the Ship". a series of books published by the Naval Institute Press. Heres the Wikipedia page that describes them and gives a list of the book in the series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomy_of_the_Ship_series

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As for my final comment on Yorktown Ms. 21 time frame; with commentary and dates from the Ruben Kitchens Jr. book "Pacific Carrier" I believe if there was any painting done from the Jan. 23 to Feb.10, Mar. 1 to Mar. 14, or May 13 to June 6 Ulithi stays I think it was repainting the Ms. 33-10a. Repainting false elevators and numerals is mentioned in the first visit, but her clean-up was for her movie premier "Fighting Lady" for VIPs of the fleet including Ernie Pyle. Also I've seen two pictures of Yorktown sporting Ms. 33-10a 'and' her last radar up-date (which was in her May 45' Ulithi refitt.) I firmly believe she left Ulithi on June 6 wearing a weather worn 33-10a and was actually repainted Ms. 21 at San Pedro.

Thanks Keith.

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There's another possibility I haven't managed to confirm for any ship, but the Navy changed the dazzle schemes starting in late 1944 for the ships that weren't going to be in for overhaul for a bit to make them less conspicuous. This speedletter directs the lighter grays be painted over with 5-O Ocean Gray.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

That´s an interesting possibility. Lets "dig" !!!

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Also, and changing subject a bit...
In the book I mentioned a few days back ("Aircraft Carrier"), the author states that there were hundreds or even thousands ( I can´t remind his exact words) of eyebolts on the hangar deck. These were used to lash down aircraft, when needed. Has anybody ever came across a hangar deck picture, where these eyebolts could be seen ?

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